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The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

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Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#121

Post by fretless »

rorrr2 wrote: post #37
quaunaut wrote: post #18

Honest question: Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans, with a guaranteed open position for someone at a place in more rural parts of America? Originally, I was born in Fresno, CA. We didn't have the most healthy job rate when times were good, let alone once the recession hit. I spent five years looking for a job- and didn't find one until I got the help of a friend online…

You had a computer, and it took you five years to find A job? I find that hard to believe.

If you spent a few days in (central California belt of) Stockton, Modesto or Fresno looking for a job, you might learn some empathy

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#122

Post by rmc »

quaunaut wrote: post #18

Honest question: Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans, with a guaranteed open position for someone at a place in more rural parts of America? Originally, I was born in Fresno, CA. We didn't have the most healthy job rate when times were good, let alone once the recession hit. I spent five years looking for a job- and didn't find one until I got the help of a friend online…

Interesting idea. But what do you do if the person without a job is gay, lesbian, trans, etc, and the job is in the bible belt.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#123

Post by wildgift »

codex wrote: post #73
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

Given that human wants are infinite, why would someone with no job but a basic income not commit crimes to increase their income? They have plenty of time on their hands, and their social status would be a function of how much wealth they had beyond their basic income.

Because committing crimes is work.

Given the choice, it's generally more lucrative for the average person to simply find work.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#124

Post by shin_lao »

hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

Your approach is simplistic. In France there is a kind of Basic Income. Yet crimes are still committed. The reasons why you go into a life of crime is not just a matter of getting food because you're hungry. Otherwise all poor people would commit crimes.

Being part of a gang is a way for young people to exist. It's not just a question of money. It's also an occupation, because there's nothing else to do. And there is the remote possibility that you might become very rich. Which will never happen with living wages.

These young people don't need money. They need a job.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#125

Post by vacri »

w1ntermute wrote: post #93
bluedino wrote: post #65

Where are the young black kids in tech? Blacks of any age are sorely under-represented in tech. So are Latinos, although not quite as bad. It's a very white (and Asian/Indian) world we live in. I'm so glad to see things like Black Girls Code. These kids need mentors that aren't sports stars, or music stars. Oddly enough, music is one industry I always remember running into a lot of black people in - Macs and ProTools…

> Oddly enough, music is one industry I always remember running into a lot of black people in - Macs and ProTools used in music production. That's not odd at all. Blacks are hugely overrepresented in the music industry (as well as the pro sports industry). You gotta love how American society is always collectively wringing its hands about how there aren't enough black people in STEM, but nobody mentions how underrepr…

Blacks are something like 12% of the US population, so around 35 million people.

Pro football has around 80 men on the roster (more than any other sport), and 32 teams (again, on the high side), so you're looking at less than 3000 athletes employed by that one sport. Even if all the athletes were black, which they're not, that number is less than one in a thousand of the total population.

'There are jobs for blacks in pro sports' is a complete canard that needs to be abandoned.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#126

Post by agilebyte »

MartinCron wrote: post #108
w1ntermute wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oddly enough, music is one industry I always remember running into a lot of black people in - Macs and ProTools used in music production. That's not odd at all. Blacks are hugely overrepresented in the music industry (as well as the pro sports industry). You gotta love how American society is always collectively wringing its hands about how there aren't enough black people in STEM, but nobody mentions how underrepr…

The entertainment and pro sports industries are so small that they hardly matter in terms of actual employment.

They matter because they represent a big win for a select few and people feeling they do not have many choices will discount the "few" and invest all their eggs into those two baskets and most often than not fail.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#127

Post by wildgift »

pandaman wrote: post #114
spamizbad wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I get a $270 check from the government every week (14K/year), what incentive do I have robbing a gas station, which will probably have less than half my weekly pay in the till (unless of course I carefully time my robbery). It would be like a developer who makes ~$85K/year breaking into someones bank account online and transferring just $800 out. And consider the punishment of that crime versus armed robbery. What…

I doubt people who rob gas stations post often on the HN. But consider this: it takes money to vandalize as the spray paint does not grow on trees and even when you stole it you are missing an opportunity to steal something you could pawn/sell (like washing detergent or booze). Yet the vandalism does not stop. People don't join gangs to pay their bills.

The graffiti culture and gang culture are mostly separate and not related.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#128

Post by wildgift »

spamizbad wrote: post #118
pandaman wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt people who rob gas stations post often on the HN. But consider this: it takes money to vandalize as the spray paint does not grow on trees and even when you stole it you are missing an opportunity to steal something you could pawn/sell (like washing detergent or booze). Yet the vandalism does not stop. People don't join gangs to pay their bills.

Spray paint graffiti generally isn't used by independent criminals. It's usually gang related. Or used by an artist (But they'd spring for the good stuff, and aren't really doing any harm). You can get spray paint for $1 at the dollar store. It's crap, but it's not like you're using to rust-proof your patio furniture. You can even get "used" cans at some places (like pawn shops). Considering the age restriction on pu…

Gangs use graffiti to mark territory and presence. They don't necessarily steal it. The person writing it is designated to write it. Overall, they don't use much paint and probably don't care about paint quality.

Artistic tagging and graffiti are a different thing. Due to the amount of paint used, they do tend to steal it if they lack money. "Racking" or stealing it is also considered a part of that outlaw culture. A large mural can cost hundreds of dollars to execute. Even a small picture can take a few cans of paint.

To get an idea of the amount of paint, search for images of "gang graffiti", and then for "graffiti murals".

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#129

Post by tracker1 »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #116
GauntletWizard wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no shame in being jobless - Not for these people, it's a societal norm. There's no shame in asking for government handouts, blowing it on booze and drugs and gold chains and other luxuries, then complaining that you can't make rent and can't buy food. There is no shame whatsoever - just a continuing resentment that they are owed something by society that is not being provided, like everything else they have e…

Setting aside the blatant and overt racism inherent in your statement, the studies on this topic are quite clear and directly contradict what you're saying. I wish I could point you to full text articles, but they're all behind paywalls. Try googling 'joblessness black youth depression' to read some relevant abstracts.

I've seen my fair share of white people that have the same attitude described above. It isn't necessarily a racial divide, and not everyone is motivated to do/be better.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#130

Post by tracker1 »

incision wrote: post #28

As I've mentioned on HN before, I dropped out of high school and found my into a job in technology by way of a GED, public libraries and work as a landscaper, in the DC area coincidentally. Everything mentioned in this article rings to true me. The transition traditional low-end jobs to middle-aged people and closed-circle of internships and job programs in particular. That said, the first step towards mitigating thi…

It happens a lot in lower income white and hispanic communities as well... I don't think this is so much a racial issue as it is one of multi-generation poverty.
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