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The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

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Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#81

Post by peripheralFix »

WhoIsSatoshi wrote: post #33

I see a lot of peripheral discussion - But what do you think about the article? As an investor, I see the proposed solution as very interesting. I feel as though there is no reason that the funding effort cannot be entirely crowdsourced for a company trying to raise funds.

I have a pointed question for you:

As an investor, how many of these dropouts would you like to hire at one of your startups tomorrow morning?

I don't really understand which solution you're pointing out as a candidate for crowdsourcing. Microloans are as much of a solution as pawn shops, to be brutally honest.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#82

Post by sliverstorm »

quaunaut wrote: post #18

Honest question: Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans, with a guaranteed open position for someone at a place in more rural parts of America? Originally, I was born in Fresno, CA. We didn't have the most healthy job rate when times were good, let alone once the recession hit. I spent five years looking for a job- and didn't find one until I got the help of a friend online…

It could certainly be tried on the private scale. Perhaps you help them locate a position in addition to bankrolling the move.

I don't think there are many loan products currently that could fill that kind of need, so it could be an open opportunity.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#83

Post by icelancer »

krakensden wrote: post #68
philwelch wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "STEM fields" you mean "programming". Or do you know of many scientists, mathematicians, or engineers (real engineers, not programmers) who succeed without a formal education?

In bioscience jobs there are definitely pipette monkey -> manager stories, and you don't particularly need much in the way of qualifications for the former. I suspect he's pretending all STEM is programming though.

>I suspect he's pretending all STEM is programming though.

I am not. I would have said programming if I had meant it.

ETA: Ironically enough, I am a non-degree holder (dropout) working in a non-programming STEM field. My bio is a bit out of date since I have indeed gotten out of the data science community.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#84

Post by saalweachter »

cpeterso wrote: post #64
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

I imagine a huge number of people on Basic Income would just blow all the money on the first day of each month on drugs and frivolous consumer goods. That said, I do think society has an obligation to provide a basic guarantee of life's needs: education, food and income, and health care. There is only so much society or any individual can do for someone if they, given the tools and opportunity, choose to waste it.

What do you mean by "a huge number"? Do you mean "a huge number" or do you mean "a huge fraction"? The difference is important for policy decisions.

25% of Americans are food insecure each year. If you gave them enough money to not be (we sort of try to do this: about 15% of the US population received food stamps at some point last year, but 15% is less than 25%, and the monetary amount is sometimes too small to prevent food insecurity), some amount of it would probably be misspent. Let's suppose 1% of recipients misspent it. 750,000 people blowing government money on heroin and hookers is a huge number of people. But a program with 99% efficiency -- where only 1% is misspent -- is also objectively really fucking efficient; a charity only has to spent 80% of its funds well for most people to consider it efficient.

So do you care about a huge number or a huge fraction of people abusing the system? Personally, I'm OK with the idea of hundreds of thousands of people abusing the public trust if it means that tens of millions are bootstrapped out of poverty.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#85

Post by rndmize »

codex wrote: post #73
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

Given that human wants are infinite, why would someone with no job but a basic income not commit crimes to increase their income? They have plenty of time on their hands, and their social status would be a function of how much wealth they had beyond their basic income.

I would think people with basic income would be much less likely to commit crimes because a) essential needs can be met and b) they would have something to lose (freedom, time, money).

Beyond that, there's something inherently silly about your question - perhaps its the way it assumes the worst of people. You might as well ask why don't teachers get tenure and leave as much teaching as they can to subs without being fired, or why don't programmers pass all their work on to elance or odesk and get some additional outside work to make more money. These things may happen on occasion, but I'm inclined to believe that most are not so mercenary/sociopathic.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#87

Post by spamizbad »

codex wrote: post #73
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

Given that human wants are infinite, why would someone with no job but a basic income not commit crimes to increase their income? They have plenty of time on their hands, and their social status would be a function of how much wealth they had beyond their basic income.

If I get a $270 check from the government every week (14K/year), what incentive do I have robbing a gas station, which will probably have less than half my weekly pay in the till (unless of course I carefully time my robbery).

It would be like a developer who makes ~$85K/year breaking into someones bank account online and transferring just $800 out. And consider the punishment of that crime versus armed robbery.

What you would likely see is people collecting wages off the books. People working odd jobs part time for maybe $250 a week and collecting their minimum income. Way less risk than crime; much better pay. This is bad, but nowhere near as bad as robbery or working the black market.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#88

Post by readme »

jlgreco wrote: post #42
readme wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. Lowering the minimum wage isn't going to make an unskilled and lazy teenager useful. We have programs for this: * http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx -- This provides room, board, a stipend suitable for a teenager with no expenses, and vocational training for those under 25 years old (i.e, teens) * http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ -- There's really no disputing this one. Any one of them can hoof it over to the nearest…

I think that there is value in dropping the minimum wage for teenagers dramatically, regardless of these issues. Giving teenagers another place to get yelled at for not working hard enough (besides just school and home) is clearly beneficial (as you note about the military) but the options that you list are not sufficient. They require too much of a lifestyle change which makes those programs seem inaccessible. Letti…

>dropping the minimum wage for teenagers

I can agree to this, except, lets do it this way: lets leave the minimum wage where it is for teens, and raise it for everyone else. That'd also solve the problem of adults working jobs that are meant for teens.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#89

Post by aaron695 »

codex wrote: post #73
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

Given that human wants are infinite, why would someone with no job but a basic income not commit crimes to increase their income? They have plenty of time on their hands, and their social status would be a function of how much wealth they had beyond their basic income.

If a person has no job and no basic income why would they commit less crimes than someone with no job and a basic income?

Why wouldn't someone with no job but a basic income, if they wanted more money get a job?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#90

Post by readme »

bluedino wrote: post #61
jlgreco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there is value in dropping the minimum wage for teenagers dramatically, regardless of these issues. Giving teenagers another place to get yelled at for not working hard enough (besides just school and home) is clearly beneficial (as you note about the military) but the options that you list are not sufficient. They require too much of a lifestyle change which makes those programs seem inaccessible. Letti…

> They require too much of a lifestyle change which makes those programs seem inaccessible. Letting the sandwich shop down the road yell at teenagers for $4/hr is better than having teenagers go halfway across the state with Job Corps. A lot of these kids need exactly that - a change of environment. I have a second cousin whose mother is always getting fired from minimum wage jobs, is constantly getting kicked out of…

I agree, the sandwich shop up the road did yell at me when I worked there for lower than minimum wage under the table at more than one shop.

What jgreco suggests is good, as long as it's just for teens and doesn't go lower than it currently is (i.e., lets raise it for adults, since they often have to feed children)

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