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The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

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Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#51
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offering money to drop out of high school would cause the drop out rate to increase further. Besides, I get the feeling that most high school drop outs aren't really looking for work. This is a hard problem to solve.

The money would be unconditional, not in exchange for dropping out of high school. You may as well say that soup kitchens are offering soup to drop out of high school and are causing the drop out rate to increase further.

Ah, so anyone say 14 or older gets X/year? Any thoughts on what X would be. I assume this would supplant welfare to some degree?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#52
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If minimum wage law was such a determining factor why is it countries with a higher minimum wages than the USA have lower (including youth) unemployment rates. I'll give you my take on this. What creates employment is consumption and people earning next to nothing don’t consume. So if you cut the minimum wage all you'll end up doing is reduce the overall consumption, which in turn will drive up unemployment. The trut…

The countries with the highest minimum wages are the democratic socialist states of Europe which all have much higher youth unemployment rates than here. One of the lowest youth unemployment rates in Europe is Germany, which has no minimum wage law.

Whether northern Europe has a minimum wage or not is a bit complex. Neither Germany nor the Nordic countries have statutory minimum wages, but they have very corporatist labor sectors, with strong labor-union participation organized along the lines of broad confederations (giant labor confederations negotiate ground agreements with giant employer confederations). Some of that is entrenched in law, e.g. in most of Scandinavia the workers are guaranteed representatives on certain bodies that can veto things like changes to employment contracts.

So a negotiated minimum wage still covers a large proportion of jobs. In Denmark somewhere around 80% of jobs are covered by the negotiated minimum wage agreements, which are typically set at $20/hr. The main exceptions making up the 20% are small mom-and-pop stores (kebab shops and such) who don't join the employer confederation and therefore aren't subject to the agreements. But all jobs at large companies, like supermarket clerks and janitors, are covered by the minimum wage.

In Denmark this was basically the social-democratic outcome of the late-19th-century labor strife: the moderate wing of the labor movement reached an agreement in September 1899 with moderates within the business community to adopt a consensus-based approach to workplace conditions and pay. That held, so both the laissez-faire capitalist advocates and the militantly socialist portion of the labor movement were sidelined for a century or so.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#53
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money would be unconditional, not in exchange for dropping out of high school. You may as well say that soup kitchens are offering soup to drop out of high school and are causing the drop out rate to increase further.

Ah, so anyone say 14 or older gets X/year? Any thoughts on what X would be. I assume this would supplant welfare to some degree?

Yes, though most proposals start at 18 I believe.

It has some advantages over more traditional welfare systems. For instance it could be implemented with far less bureaucracy and would help improve labor mobility in the middle class by decreasing the friction of changing jobs and moving to different areas with better jobs (improving labor mobility would benefit the economy at large).

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#54
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If minimum wage law was such a determining factor why is it countries with a higher minimum wages than the USA have lower (including youth) unemployment rates. I'll give you my take on this. What creates employment is consumption and people earning next to nothing don’t consume. So if you cut the minimum wage all you'll end up doing is reduce the overall consumption, which in turn will drive up unemployment. The trut…

The countries with the highest minimum wages are the democratic socialist states of Europe which all have much higher youth unemployment rates than here. One of the lowest youth unemployment rates in Europe is Germany, which has no minimum wage law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/28/spain-lost-generati...

Reference

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#55
> The sad thing is that since the nation began to add jobs in 2009, we've created about 5.2 million additional jobs for America's workers. Teenagers in the aggregate received none of them. Not one.

This is the kind of Washington, DC b.s. that gets regurgitated in the news. If you look at the U6 unemployment rate, the net impact has been a huge upturn in total unemployment:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/U6RATE

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#56
"High school students working today work at less than a 50 percent rate to what they did back in 2000. Like in our state here in Massachusetts, 45 percent of our high school students worked in 2000. Last year it was 15 percent: 45 to 15 percent."

I had a couple jobs - as a high schooler in Massachusetts in 2000. I learned a lot of job/life skills from those jobs...

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#57
post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

> This seems like another argument for Basic Income.

Or another argument against minimum wage. Minimum wage gets increased as cost-of-living goes up (albeit with a large lag). That's good if you're the household bread-winner trying to live off a minimum wage job. It's bad if you're a kid looking for some spending money. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#58
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. Lowering the minimum wage isn't going to make an unskilled and lazy teenager useful. We have programs for this: * http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx -- This provides room, board, a stipend suitable for a teenager with no expenses, and vocational training for those under 25 years old (i.e, teens) * http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ -- There's really no disputing this one. Any one of them can hoof it over to the nearest…

Are you saying that the high school dropout rate is 1%? Because that's not anywhere close to being correct. It's over 25% in the United States according to this: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/06/high-sch...

Dropping out is not the opposite of not graduating; you can continue trying to graduate for several years. The actual dropout rate is 7.4%: nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Shouldn't this be used as incentive for parents and families within those communities to promote school attendance and encourage academic performance?

Or shouldn't it be used to promote alternative methods of education that are accepted by many employers? STEM fields by and large are the most friendly towards alternative (or complete lack of) education. A well-manicured GitHub, a decent resume, and not looking like an idiot in an interview trumps most college degrees for mid-level developer jobs that aren't Facebook/Google/etc.

By "STEM fields" you mean "programming". Or do you know of many scientists, mathematicians, or engineers (real engineers, not programmers) who succeed without a formal education?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#60

"High school students working today work at less than a 50 percent rate to what they did back in 2000. Like in our state here in Massachusetts, 45 percent of our high school students worked in 2000. Last year it was 15 percent: 45 to 15 percent." I had a couple jobs - as a high schooler in Massachusetts in 2000. I learned a lot of job/life skills from those jobs...

Ditto. I learned that I didn't want to scrub toilets for the rest of my life!
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