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“Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

salon.com

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Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#261

Post by InclinedPlane »

Ovid wrote: post #23

Is this really the America that America wants? The article mentions one case where a judge refused to issue a search warrant for a narcotics investigation and instead the police brought representatives from the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control and raided the place with a swat team to conduct an alcohol inspection. What did they find? Two sample bottles of beer that weren't labeled as samples and a bo…

Of course it isn't the America that America wants. But the problem is that most people are not aware of the connections between the incentives and the policies and actions those incentives produce. Indeed, most folks, harbor some bit of political ideology which is in some way counter-factual and they refuse to acknowledge that being the case. That applies to EVERYONE of EVERY political party. Period. What's worse is that now our public political discourse is so tainted and poisonous that it is nigh impossible to actually have a frank and honest discussion about any matter of public policy. It's almost all just games and shouting instead.

There is hope, but it's going to take more hard work than most people believe to make things significantly better.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#262

Post by saraid216 »

hondje wrote: post #239
saraid216 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rhetoric like this that makes cops feel obligated to protect each other from other citizens. If you're accused of a crime, you deserve maximum legal effort applied for your defense.

Don't try and blame police corruption on people complaining about police corruption and hating corrupt police, its obviously neither the cause nor a contributing factor. Just deflecting blame to the victims.

No? Think about that every time you see "hackers" on the news.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#263

Post by drblast »

The lack of accountability here disgusts me.

Therefore, I propose a rule:

Discharge a firearm while serving as a cop, no matter the reason, and that's it, you're no longer a cop. Take your toys and go home, thank you for your service.

Yes, you'd fire good people, but you'd also remove any incentive for less-than-good people to act irresponsibly and ensure they thought twice about using lethal force. I'd argue that by far this is the greater good.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#264

Post by adambratt »

drblast wrote: post #263

The lack of accountability here disgusts me. Therefore, I propose a rule: Discharge a firearm while serving as a cop, no matter the reason, and that's it, you're no longer a cop. Take your toys and go home, thank you for your service. Yes, you'd fire good people, but you'd also remove any incentive for less-than-good people to act irresponsibly and ensure they thought twice about using lethal force. I'd argue that by…

So in an actual dangerous situation the cop would have the choice to either run or to fire his gun and lose his job.

Would you really want someone to protect you at the risk of losing their job?

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#265

Post by drblast »

adambratt wrote: post #264
drblast wrote: post #263

The lack of accountability here disgusts me. Therefore, I propose a rule: Discharge a firearm while serving as a cop, no matter the reason, and that's it, you're no longer a cop. Take your toys and go home, thank you for your service. Yes, you'd fire good people, but you'd also remove any incentive for less-than-good people to act irresponsibly and ensure they thought twice about using lethal force. I'd argue that by…

So in an actual dangerous situation the cop would have the choice to either run or to fire his gun and lose his job. Would you really want someone to protect you at the risk of losing their job?

I think that if this were the rule, this would be understood going in, and it would be fair. The nature of police service would change. Why should being an officer be a lifetime career?

We ask people in the military to protect us at the risk of losing their lives, why is it so much to ask for a cop to risk his job?

Edit: I'm coming from a military background and the lack of accountability there is disturbing too. I think people with responsibility to protect and/or kill other people should be risking their jobs regularly. Otherwise, there is no real accountability. See here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/11/general-...

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#266

Post by ajtaylor »

Ovid wrote: post #23

Is this really the America that America wants? The article mentions one case where a judge refused to issue a search warrant for a narcotics investigation and instead the police brought representatives from the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control and raided the place with a swat team to conduct an alcohol inspection. What did they find? Two sample bottles of beer that weren't labeled as samples and a bo…

It's not the America I grew up in, nor the one I want to live in. So I left and have no plans to go back anytime soon. The land of the free isn't so free anymore, which makes me incredibly sad. And my parents live in VA!

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#267

Post by deadairspace »

mcantelon wrote: post #151
nateabele wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the conclusion of the article nails what's at the heart of the issue. Most of the country is either left or right, and is perfectly comfortable with paramilitarized police forces being used against 'the other side'.

America's polarization is likely deliberately promoted by the elites. When a society is occupied by infighting over wedge issues it's not looking at the big picture and power can be more easily consolidated. In Rwanda, the colonialists arbitrarily split the population into Hutus and Tutsi "ethnicities" then showed favoritism to one group. They eventually got infighting which diverted energy from possible insurgence.

Chomsky said this:

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#268

Post by jessaustin »

unethical_ban wrote: post #240
yogo wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things are still pretty rare. Unfortunately, once you start raiding barber shops and pool halls with so much heat something like this is bound to happen. I still find it to be an honorable job with honest guys that put their lives on the line; however, statistically there's always going to be some hot-headed trigger-happy guy involved. Plus even if they're not on the force they're in some neighborhood as the un…

People would be more forgiving to individual departments and officers if ever there was fair punishment and contrition for crimes committed by law enforcement. There is always an excuse or a legal loophole, with no admittance of guilt or evidence of self-reflection.

Also, if there were even a chance of fair punishment, police would change their tactics to favor low-risk encounters rather than the Wild West raids they favor now.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#269

Post by phaus »

sneak wrote: post #221
Nrsolis wrote: post #184

I knew Sal Culosi. He was a nice enough guy that used to hang out at Fast Eddies Sports Bar in Fairfax, VA. I saw him there often just tending a beer and minding his own business. If you can believe it, he was an optometrist at a Wal-Mart that just measured eyeballs and wrote prescriptions. If he was a bookie (as alleged) then I never saw anything that gave him away. I followed his story in the paper and was surprise…

It's shit like this that flies in the face of all those "but most cops are not bad guys" arguments. If an organization fights to protect bad guys, I don't care how much good they do: they are complicit in furthering criminal behavior. And they're in a position of trust, at that! It's an open secret that cops lie to protect other cops. Why do we allow this? Any other person in a special position of trust and responsib…

>Any other person in a special position of trust and responsibility that contravenes their duty gets _extra_punishment.

I completely agree, whenever politicians, CEOs of megacorporations, field-grade military officers and senior noncommissioned officers, local government officials, district attorneys, and intelligence agents break the law, the punishment is ALWAYS extremely severe isn't it? I mean, it must really suck to have to retire and collect a gigantic paycheck every month or a multimillion dollar severance package. And then have everyone forget about it a few weeks later so you can make a comeback in the political arena.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#270

Post by jessaustin »

saraid216 wrote: post #262
hondje wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't try and blame police corruption on people complaining about police corruption and hating corrupt police, its obviously neither the cause nor a contributing factor. Just deflecting blame to the victims.

No? Think about that every time you see "hackers" on the news.

When are police accounts ever questioned "on the news"? If anything, comparing the different media treatments of the two groups emphasizes the lack of accountability for police.
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