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“Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

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Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#141

Post by cglace »

mikeash wrote: post #132
nhangen wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that America wants this, it's that the politicians we elect do not keep their promises. Those that try are forced out, shaken down, relegated to stay at the bottom of the ladder. In our current political climate, a politician must barter ethics and morality for the power to do what they promised. And by then, it's too late, they're already gone.

A few don't, but most politicians run on a platform of being tough on crime and tough on terror, then do exactly what they said they'd do.

Well, they do things that will make them look tough on crime without really carrying if it will actually reduce the level of crime.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#142

Post by Houshalter »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #127
smky80 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not "like" it. It's just that, to be very blunt, most people are basically peasants at heart. They're going to go along with whatever the king says. Twenty years ago, on that side of the line on a map, the people believed in capitalism, while on the other side the people believed in communism. On this side of the line people believed in this god, on that side, they believe in that god. It has nothing to do wi…

This is a somewhat ugly and self-aggrandizing view. It's easy to let people you don't know and will never meet become sub-human, but it's dangerous and harmful. The relevant xkcd is of course, http://xkcd.com/610/ . I don't presume to know why most people are not particularly vocal on these matters, but it's certainly not because they lack critical thought.

It's not wrong though. Most people don't care about politics. They don't research economics or anything like that, at best they hear the news sometimes and discuss stuff with their friends.

That doesn't make them sub-human. There is no real incentive to care a lot about politics or do all the research and thinking necessary to come to correct conclusions. It's not like your vote is going to change the outcome of the election.

But no it's not terribly self-aggrandizing to assume that most people don't have a lot of interest or education in politics. It's true.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#143

Post by nbouscal »

gaius wrote: post #122
mikeash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, yes, it is the America that America wants, as far as I can tell. I think this is where efforts to fight these problems fall down. They're almost all based on the assumption that the populace doesn't want this stuff to happen, but that the government pushes it through by abusing power, subverting democracy, etc. But from what I see, this is not the case. Most Americans want this. Whether it's gun-wielding mania…

What fascinates me about this is that the SWAT team and the spies are people too. Which sounds obvious but it isn't. Take a guy off the street and he believes about himself, and the government believes about him, that he needs to be surveilled constantly and if he acts suspiciously, violently confronted. But what if that guy is a bureaucrat or a policeman himself? What happens in the recruitment/training process to t…

This type of thing is well studied in e.g. the Stanford Prison Experiment. People's behavior is far more influenced by the environment and circumstances they are in than by their beliefs or opinions.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#144

Post by logn »

Ovid wrote: post #23

Is this really the America that America wants? The article mentions one case where a judge refused to issue a search warrant for a narcotics investigation and instead the police brought representatives from the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control and raided the place with a swat team to conduct an alcohol inspection. What did they find? Two sample bottles of beer that weren't labeled as samples and a bo…

No, of course it's not the America we want. It's the America we get though due to our longstanding apathy and inability to curb special interest groups and corporate control of politics. I think things will change though. Things have been pretty nice in the US for a while. We're now seeing the dark side of apathy and people are starting to care again (in my opinion). It had been pretty easy to shrug off politics as corrupt and not care when we still had relative normalcy. But a lot of Americans have awoken in recent weeks to find themselves living in a sci-fi dystopia that we were warned about in the classics of literature, the kind that had always been eerily similar to our lives but never quite reached. We're now in full on 1984 and Americans won't accept that, I guarantee it (we're the country that ended slavery and celebrate our roots as rebels: we shall overcome).

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#146

Post by balsam »

Has anybody had a difficult relationship with her parents? This, essentially, is what the dynamic is. Except the government is not actually parents and thus the guilt of hurting their children under the rationale of protecting them, though it exists, doesn't last very long. But the good thing is, their children will eventually forgive them too.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#147

Post by nateabele »

mikeash wrote: post #87
Ovid wrote: post #23

Is this really the America that America wants? The article mentions one case where a judge refused to issue a search warrant for a narcotics investigation and instead the police brought representatives from the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control and raided the place with a swat team to conduct an alcohol inspection. What did they find? Two sample bottles of beer that weren't labeled as samples and a bo…

Sadly, yes, it is the America that America wants, as far as I can tell. I think this is where efforts to fight these problems fall down. They're almost all based on the assumption that the populace doesn't want this stuff to happen, but that the government pushes it through by abusing power, subverting democracy, etc. But from what I see, this is not the case. Most Americans want this. Whether it's gun-wielding mania…

I think the conclusion of the article nails what's at the heart of the issue. Most of the country is either left or right, and is perfectly comfortable with paramilitarized police forces being used against 'the other side'.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#148

Post by mindstab »

drone wrote: post #117

It seems like every day, more and more political posts about the US are made here. It's getting to the point that it seems that 35% of the point of HN is about getting opportunities to make political statements about the US. There are so many, so so many, places to have on-going political arguments. I'm of the mind that any place that allows free commentary ultimately becomes a political discussion board, and HN is p…

I think hacker culture and freedom have always gone hand in hand. In bygone days hackers could claim apoliticalness in already "free" places which is also generally where they flourished. Now when they are realizing they are much less free than they thought they are seen/see themselves as "politicizing". But being a hacker always was a political statement, it used to just mesh more with the popular culture so they mistook themselves for being like everyone else, and having no agenda.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#150

Post by [deleted] »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #127
smky80 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not "like" it. It's just that, to be very blunt, most people are basically peasants at heart. They're going to go along with whatever the king says. Twenty years ago, on that side of the line on a map, the people believed in capitalism, while on the other side the people believed in communism. On this side of the line people believed in this god, on that side, they believe in that god. It has nothing to do wi…

This is a somewhat ugly and self-aggrandizing view. It's easy to let people you don't know and will never meet become sub-human, but it's dangerous and harmful. The relevant xkcd is of course, http://xkcd.com/610/ . I don't presume to know why most people are not particularly vocal on these matters, but it's certainly not because they lack critical thought.

[deleted]
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