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Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

goodui.org

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Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#121

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

rexreed wrote: post #117
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #105

If I may offer a little critique: I'm on the really-hates-the-footer camp. It's off-putting. See the thing about the footer is that you already broke rule #2, you're trying to close the sale(it's not a gift, I know you're trying to get me to sign up to your newsletter) So putting it out like that is just obnoxious, and no one likes an obnoxious salesman. You should have just put the offer at the very bottom, once I r…

I usually have my NoScript turned on, and it was a very pleasant read because I didn't even realize there was a footer there until I turned on scripts. In my opinion, the experience was better with the scripts off, even if the font wasn't as cool. I got the value from the article without the scripts on and footer missing.

You got the value because you were able to read through the thing already. However, the other side of the argument is that people are getting turned off immediately and never read the content, so they don't get any value at all, and worse, get pissed because the footer was all up on their face.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that this sort of footer is a good case for a GUI anti-pattern. It literally hurts your sales.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#122

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #113
ivankirigin wrote: post #88

Dear HN, just because someone makes a blog post about good UI elements, doesn't mean you need to shit on details big or small about the specific site (e.g. the big footer). For most people, this is a great way to understand the possibilities for different UIs to test. Instead of just copying others, you can think more abstractly about the UI ideas.

What's particularly interesting about the big footer as a UI problem here is that it underscores the trickiness of balancing good UI with converting. For instance, people came to hate popup windows, and they became anathema to a good UI. However, the reason they were used is because they succeeded in getting the user's attention. Likewise, in this article, the giant footer takes up half my tablet's page, yet the auth…

Just to not do anything that offends them. If that means no popups, or giant trailing footers, then that means no popups or giant trailing footers under no circumstance whatsoever.

The call to action has to be non-intrusive. And that's probably going to depend on the type of call to action, though I think that if he had left the footer as it was intended to do (the offer comes after the article is done, once you read the whole thing and you're sold, as is the traditional approach that you know, sells) it would have worked much better.

It's hard to read through a slot, and who wants to do that?

So a marketing page needs to be easy to read and give the call to action at the end.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#123

Post by paranoiacblack »

latortuga wrote: post #120
paranoiacblack wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting pretty uppity about testimonials here. Regardless of them being effective persuasive techniques, they're still just persuasive techniques and I imagine a lot of people dislike persuasion getting in the way of content. I happen to agree with the OP that testimonials tend to make me believe that the product lacks enough substance to be useful by itself. In any matter, it's a personal preference and no am…

You've completely rehashed the OP. My point is that it doesn't matter what one individually believes on the subject of testimonials and the effectiveness thereof - they are indisputably effective for selling. Presenting anecdotal evidence that there exist people that dislike them does not change that and is worse than saying nothing because you give people the impression that testimonials are somehow negative. We're…

On the contrary, you're extrapolating too much from the OP. It was never presented as a universal impression, and I really doubt anyone took it that way. However, the anecdote is useful because it shows that there are people who absolutely hate testimonials. Which is a useful lesson for anyone who might be blindly using testimonials as opposed to actually analyzing their users. The OP never challenged the statistics or suggested that testimonials are always bad.

To say that users sharing their anecdotal negative experiences about what you claim is an indisputably positive experience for the user is an interesting argument to make though. It's almost like you're telling the OP that it's good for them whether they realize or not.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#124

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

woah wrote: post #111
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #105

If I may offer a little critique: I'm on the really-hates-the-footer camp. It's off-putting. See the thing about the footer is that you already broke rule #2, you're trying to close the sale(it's not a gift, I know you're trying to get me to sign up to your newsletter) So putting it out like that is just obnoxious, and no one likes an obnoxious salesman. You should have just put the offer at the very bottom, once I r…

I agree on hating the footer, but I have no opinion on your criticism of the content, because I didn't even read it because I was straining to focus on the actual site through the tiny slot provided.

This is probably the majority opinion of people who come from smaller devices. I too had to strain to read it, but kept on. I'm 25 with good eyesight, but as you said, that tiny slot is just too much to bear.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#125

Post by rexreed »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #121
rexreed wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually have my NoScript turned on, and it was a very pleasant read because I didn't even realize there was a footer there until I turned on scripts. In my opinion, the experience was better with the scripts off, even if the font wasn't as cool. I got the value from the article without the scripts on and footer missing.

You got the value because you were able to read through the thing already. However, the other side of the argument is that people are getting turned off immediately and never read the content, so they don't get any value at all, and worse, get pissed because the footer was all up on their face. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that this sort of footer is a good case for a GUI anti-pattern.…

That's exactly what I'm saying -- I read through it all because with my scripts turned off, the footer didn't appear. I didn't even realize it was there! So, yes, case in point - maybe I wouldn't have read it at all with the footer, although it's hard to tell now. When others started commenting on the footer, I had to go back to the page, turn on the scripts and then I was like, "ok, that's big!".

The content of the article was good nonetheless, but I don't think the footer added to it, and probably took away from it a bit.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#126

Post by gojomo »

wavefunction wrote: post #68

There are a few good ideas in here, but a lot of questionable ones. For example: Turn your content into marked lists rather than have a gap? The list format is only really useful for indicating additional content if you're providing some sort of marking like 1/16, 2/16, etc. to indicate position relative to "the end." The whole thing about the visual gap is just as true with the gap between list items and other conte…

Maybe people habitually search for a stronger end-of-list indicator, once a list starts, \ like a larger gap or return to un-numbered wider-columned text... so simply using a list helps immunize against short breaks causing problems.

Also, perhaps you could decorate the bullets/numbers in some sort of boundary-escaping way that always helps hint there's a next item. (For example, using a diamond background where the top point always reaches to be alongside the previous item's body text.)

Of course, these theories/ideas would need testing.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#127

Post by PavlovsCat »

latortuga wrote: post #120
paranoiacblack wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting pretty uppity about testimonials here. Regardless of them being effective persuasive techniques, they're still just persuasive techniques and I imagine a lot of people dislike persuasion getting in the way of content. I happen to agree with the OP that testimonials tend to make me believe that the product lacks enough substance to be useful by itself. In any matter, it's a personal preference and no am…

You've completely rehashed the OP. My point is that it doesn't matter what one individually believes on the subject of testimonials and the effectiveness thereof - they are indisputably effective for selling. Presenting anecdotal evidence that there exist people that dislike them does not change that and is worse than saying nothing because you give people the impression that testimonials are somehow negative. We're…

> My point is that it doesn't matter what one individually believes on the subject of testimonials and the effectiveness thereof - they are indisputably effective for selling.

That it works on people just means it works on people, not that it's not lame, and not that it works on me. Which , if you read carefully, is exactly what I said.

And I don't believe, I think. And I have good reasons for what I think, too. I would even say I know to some degree. If you don't care about that, that's fine; but notice the irony of you telling me what you think (or what "statistics think" which is saying the same thing with less courage).

> We're on an internet message board talking about conversion optimization.

Yes, and? I find reverse engineering and defeating techniques of manipulation much more intellectually stimulating than just fawning over them. Not that I did that here, but then again I clicked this think because it claimed to be about UI, which I care about, and just typed up my initial reaction to it.

They got my eyeballs with that, so now they have my testimonial, too ^^

> Statistics don't care about personal preferences; your competitors will laugh at them straight to the bank.

You must mistake me for quite the short-sighted, selfish, materialistic asshole to believe that would impress me. As the Italian proverb goes, "after the game, the pawn and the king go into the same box.", so I'd rather laugh on the way from the bank to there, than on the way to the bank, like some complete noob.

You can't buy integrity; you can either develop and keep it, grow numb to the lack of it, or wake up in a cold sweat one day. Statistics don't decide such things, they're not even an indicator. Statistics don't care for the same reason rocks don't care. Statistics don't decide for you, at best you hide your own decisions from yourself behind statistics.

I'll go you one further: If you go by statistics, you can be scripted today by skilled people, and tomorrow by script kiddies or their AI equivalent. So personally, I stay away from that. When I finally do get pushed aside I'd like that to be a genuine loss, not a net improvement, you know?

I'm hoping the world will move towards more honesty and less alienation, and that integrity pays off in the long run. Sometimes I'm vaguely optimistic even. But if the mindlessness and materalism continue unabashed, I'd say humanity is over with - and whoever gets to stuff their pockets with the most money is the biggest fool of all, but certainly no idol of mine, especially with all the amassed inability to think or talk straight.

You go by the assumption that sales at any price are good, that money is all that matters, and that the web is a perfect playground for whores, instead of maybe something for humanity to communicate and learn with. I disagree on all counts.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#129

Post by cookingrobot »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #105

If I may offer a little critique: I'm on the really-hates-the-footer camp. It's off-putting. See the thing about the footer is that you already broke rule #2, you're trying to close the sale(it's not a gift, I know you're trying to get me to sign up to your newsletter) So putting it out like that is just obnoxious, and no one likes an obnoxious salesman. You should have just put the offer at the very bottom, once I r…

The newsletter is the gift. You don't pay for it, and you only sign up if you like this free content and want more.

All of this is just gifts to get you to know/trust/like them so that maybe in the future you'll buy their service.

Re: Ideas on how to improve customer conversion and ease of use

#130

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

cookingrobot wrote: post #129
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #105

If I may offer a little critique: I'm on the really-hates-the-footer camp. It's off-putting. See the thing about the footer is that you already broke rule #2, you're trying to close the sale(it's not a gift, I know you're trying to get me to sign up to your newsletter) So putting it out like that is just obnoxious, and no one likes an obnoxious salesman. You should have just put the offer at the very bottom, once I r…

The newsletter is the gift. You don't pay for it, and you only sign up if you like this free content and want more. All of this is just gifts to get you to know/trust/like them so that maybe in the future you'll buy their service.

That's the thing though. In the end, let's be honest, it's about money. We all know newsletters are to get us into your pipeline, and you know what? Maybe so, but not right now. Calling it a gift is just a bit arrogant. Especially with that footer. How is this guy going to get me to pay money on UX advice with that footer? I bet that's the common line of thought around here

And here's good a/b testing though, accidental as it was, because it was the people who read with noscript on that got the footer at the end and actually liked the content and it was those who saw the footer that got frustrated and didn't even read it.

Also, maybe I'm on the footer list? I hadn't thought about that. In that case, pencil me in as didn't like it, haha!

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