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Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#81

Post by James_Duval »

hkmurakami wrote: post #70
laumars wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a British term that has been adopted by Japan. I know this might be splitting hairs, but both the wiki link you're replying to and the parent article cite this: "an adopted British acronym meaning "not in education, employment or training"

Japan has imbued the word with a meaning unto itself though. I don't think the British version of the word carries the same kind of social condescension that it does in Japan. Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the hermit needs something, they'll often bang the floor to summon their mother (typically for food)

>I don't think the British version of the word carries the same kind of social condescension that it does in Japan.

It certainly has a large amount of social condescension in Britain -- "not in employment, education or training" was taken up with glee by the tabloids.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#82

Post by anoncow »

dvdkhlng wrote: post #54
jayfuerstenberg wrote: post #5

Japanese society and education can be very demanding of young people. I live in Japan and have never seen so much brainwashing on the topic of the unemployed or uneducated. Besides the term hikikomori there is also NEET (Not Employed, Educated or in Training). Another shocking thing is whenever an upstanding pillar of the community is shown on TV they go out of their way to mention he is a "正社員", a full time employee…

I've always been startled by the word 社会人 which literally means "member of society" but AFAICS is used by people when describing themselves conveying the meaning of "I'm a full-time employee" (as opposed to student, part-time jobber etc.). The implication being that people who're not working full-time are not considered do be part of society?

The same indoctrination exists elsewhere too. People are given respect for their degrees or position in the hierarchy. Business trainings teach employees to be good to their bosses. while stating that doing so is important if they want their careers to advance. This has become so prevalent that it seems normal and somehow good. I don't deny that businesses also teach other good things, but these heirarchial values take priority in practice.

I don't know what is good anymore.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#83

Post by laumars »

ekianjo wrote: post #78
laumars wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole other side to Japan than the flashy/noisy side of Tokyo. One of the start ups who frequents HN lives in Japan's country side and he's written some interesting blogs and comments on here about how he can go days without seeing another human aside his wife. But sadly the side of Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo and thus many foreigners assume t…

Who talked about Tokyo ? I dont even live there. There are many places outside of Tokyo where it's full of people too.

I appreciate that, but I referenced Tokyo as that's often the first place people outside of Japan think of (like how people think of London when they think of Britain, or Paris when they think of France)

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#84

Post by spoiler »

It's a bit hurtful that they would say "teenage laziness," when it could be depression.

It started when I was 12 (probably). I slowly started losing interest in doing things that I enjoyed, even more so about the things I didn't enjoy doing. By the time I was 15 I stopped caring about my future and from a straight A student I became a C/D student. When I started high school that I wanted (we have similar requirements for HS as you would need for college or university in Croatia) things were better for about a year, but I started to fade and become "numb" again. This continued throughout HS, but since my HS was mostly about sciences (physics, maths, computer science) and linguistics, so my grades didn't suffer because I found the topics interesting.

I am a freshman & 20 years old. I am doing better because I sought help, while everyone I lived with (mum and grandmother) thought I was just a lazy, worthless do-no-good. I should also mention that my mum has an "abusive personality," which probably contributed to my depression (and is hindering recovery, in all fairness).

I was lucky to have a best friend since kindergarten, who was observant enough to notice my mental and physical deterioration and supported me to find help (to paraphrase: "i will beat the fuck out of you if you don't get yourself checked for some shit").

I was diagnosed with MDD (Major depressive disorder). I wouldn't say I am good, yet, but I am better than I was a few years ago and I haven't thought about suicide for almost 2 months now (which I did, for 4/7 days, six months ago).

TL;DR: When you are depressed, it seems like the air is thick and heavy, it seems like every ray of light is trying to push you down onto your shadow, it seems like every movement you do is being countered by an invisible force and requires you to use more energy. All your thoughts are polluted with a dark tint. You have no dreams, no hopes, no desires. You just wish to escape. Maybe they are not lazy? Maybe hiding in their rooms are the early attempts of escape, and nobody is noticing their silent cries for help.

P. S: Sorry for the long&sad post.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#85

Post by bane »

ddoolin wrote: post #46

The article states that the expert thinks it's a problem in Korea and Italy, too. I can't speak for Italy as I've never been there, but it is definitely not common in Korea. Yes, Koreans live with their parents until they're married, typically, and yes, some Korean males are kind of shut-ins, but it's definitely not a phenomenon here like it is with our neighbors across the East Sea. I can't say for certain what caus…

I agree, I'm definitely familiar with 20-something relatives having trouble entering the workforce in Korea, but I've never heard of this particular phenomenon there. I've heard of different issues, like PC bbang/gaming addictions and the occasional shut-ins.

It feels like all the pieces are in place for a Hikikomori-like phenomenon to hit in Korea, but somehow conditions are just different enough it doesn't happen. It might be that the cultural pressures to get a job and get married (and get out of the house) are just ever so slightly stronger. It also doesn't hurt that it seems more socially acceptable to seek employment outside of salarymanship to Chaebol. Sometimes I think it seems like every person in Korea has tried to start their own business at least once.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#86

Post by hkmurakami »

laumars wrote: post #77
hkmurakami wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has imbued the word with a meaning unto itself though. I don't think the British version of the word carries the same kind of social condescension that it does in Japan. Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the hermit needs something, they'll often bang the floor to summon their mother (typically for food)

>Japan has imbued the word with a meaning unto itself though. I don't think the British version of the word carries the same kind of social condescension that it does in Japan. Agreed. But that doesn't change the origins of the word - it just highlights the cultural (mis)representation of the term. > Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the herm…

I agree with everything you said :)

Great example with the freeloader/unemployed comparison. I'll put that in a mental drawer so I can use it in the future :)

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#87

Post by bane »

spoiler wrote: post #84

It's a bit hurtful that they would say "teenage laziness," when it could be depression. It started when I was 12 (probably). I slowly started losing interest in doing things that I enjoyed, even more so about the things I didn't enjoy doing. By the time I was 15 I stopped caring about my future and from a straight A student I became a C/D student. When I started high school that I wanted (we have similar requirements…

> P. S: Sorry for the long&sad post.

It's not sad since you sought help! Keep it up, you only have great things to look forward to!

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#88

Post by azth »

brador wrote: post #44
Kiro wrote: post #27

If I had the money I would probably stay at home all the time as well. I have no problem socializing and doing stuff. It's just that I prefer being home.

You may be surprised by how cheap it is to do. You could retire forever on even just $100,000.

Care to elaborate? I presume this figure does not assume you have a spouse or children to support.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#89

Post by eksith »

laumars wrote: post #65
ekianjo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the whole flashy/noisy outside world in Japan can become very alienating sometimes. Sometimes in weekends in Japan the only thing I want to do is to stay away from other people.

There's a whole other side to Japan than the flashy/noisy side of Tokyo. One of the start ups who frequents HN lives in Japan's country side and he's written some interesting blogs and comments on here about how he can go days without seeing another human aside his wife. But sadly the side of Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo and thus many foreigners assume t…

  >Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo...
Flashy loving != Flashy itself.

Shiogama, for example, is primarily centered around the fishing industry. You can imagine what my friend was compelled to get into when he had his heart set elsewhere. Since the tsunami cut deep into the family income, he was a little more accepting of their needs and slowly, but surely, he's growing out of it. It may take years for him to fully integrate into society though.

Also, people need to stop thinking of Tokyo as a "city". It's big and varied enough to be a "county" in the Western sense.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#90

Post by hkmurakami »

spoiler wrote: post #84

It's a bit hurtful that they would say "teenage laziness," when it could be depression. It started when I was 12 (probably). I slowly started losing interest in doing things that I enjoyed, even more so about the things I didn't enjoy doing. By the time I was 15 I stopped caring about my future and from a straight A student I became a C/D student. When I started high school that I wanted (we have similar requirements…

>P. S: Sorry for the long&sad post.

I think it's good for us, whether we've been blessed to have never had to deal with such demons or we've recovered from our own dark times, to be reminded of the fact that there are people out there who are quite like us in most ways who are having a very hard time living from one day to the next.

I'm of the "since recovered" camp and even then, sometimes I forget about the struggles I have had and fail to be as empathetic and understanding as I could be.

I'm always grateful when others are willing to share their not so proudest moments and let us have a peek into their struggles and troubles. It sets me straight again.

So thanks.

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