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U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

nytimes.com

161–170 of 242 posts

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#161

If you need to send an anonymous letter - hopefully for good (say, whistle blowing) and not evil - you can still do so. Use a fake return address (duh). Drive to a mailbox far away from your work or home. Pick a mailbox that has no security cameras. Don't go into a Post Office, where there will be security cameras. Turn off your phone before going anywhere near the drop location. (This is all coming from a PBS docume…

> Turn off your phone before going anywhere near the drop location.

Better, leave your phone behind during the day-trip to whatever mailbox you are using.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#162
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not saying Facebook is evil Why not? I say it is. Just as you said the other day -- advertising is preying on people's cognitive biases. Sure, the world is very morally complex, but that has no bearing on the morality of advertising and whether how Facebook in particular does it is evil or not. It is evil for a panoply of reasons. Just say it, don't just hint at it. Facebook does more lasting harm to society th…

I won't say it's evil because that's like saying fattening foods or sugary sweets are evil. People love getting the latest Kate Spade handbag even if its an exercise in irrational behavior. I'm no philosopher-king, I'm not going to sit here and call it evil to give people what they want.

That's just a defeatist attitude then isn't it. I think it's better to proactively attack something even slightly evil, because if you don't it'll keep becoming more accepted until it becomes normal and starts rotting the very foundations of a civilized society.

It is very important to look at the "other side" of things, because there are people just like you and I on the "other side" in even greater numbers -- just not born in privileged homes with access to the same opportunities. On the other side of the Silicon Valley society that is full of white kids from high-income households with connections in high places you have poor black kids who're too poorly educated, who are more susceptible to getting had by mischievous advertising schemes of today. How this is different from pyramid schemes and other immoral -- but legal things -- is it's just more sophisticated... and I guess therefore, more effective, and therefore ultimately much more damaging.

(I have to add a meta-note, because this keeps happening over and over again: I think the last 4 or 5 times I responded to you I was upvoted and all of the follow-up comments you made to me were downvoted. I swear it's not me, I think it's a pity that this happens. As much and as often as I disagree with you I do like engaging with you because you're generally pretty thorough and pretty smart. I mean, at least you recognize that advertising is something not so "good" -- a lot of people here don't. Here's hoping my upvote to you helps).

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#163
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using war or the threat of war to apprehend peace is antithetical to pacifism. I'm not sure what the American populace's purported will has to do with my view that war and its antecedents are revolting. Certainly you aren't suggesting that building these things is patriotic duty for a US citizen?

> Using war or the threat of war to apprehend peace is antithetical to pacifism. I agree, but keep in mind the person-to-person analog: "Using force or the threat of force to apprehend personal safety is antithetical to pacifism." I.e. there is a convincing philosophical argument that once you agree that people have the right to use force in self-defense, that there is a collective right to use military force for col…

Precisely. I can't speak for all pacifists, but many, like Tolstoy, outright reject personal self-defense, at least in theory. That is to say, while it is very difficult for man to give up defense of oneself and one's family (probably for good reason), a pacifist does not see the self-defender as morally pristine. The great danger is when self-defense is given priority over other means of resolving or fleeing violence. If you believe the state's case, then I think the Zimmerman murder trial is a perfect example of zealous self-defense.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#164
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As it stands what you're suggesting is at least already illegal, FWIW. Unless a secret presidential order established a secret law (declared legal by a secret court) that made it legal (but illegal to disclose to the public), that is.

The "secret order" you refer to is in accordance with the public law, otherwise the "secret court" you refer to wouldn't have said that it's legal. Invading the mail, on the other hand, is quite explicitly illegal.

An undisclosed order that is in accordance with an undisclosed nonintuitive interpretation of the public law oughtn't be legal, and regardless of conformance to the USC, seems to violate the constitution that provides the foundation for the government's existence.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A mail proxy is what is needed (I have no idea if these exist today). Put your letter inside an envelope to a mailing proxy. Mailing proxy opens your letter, and sends your recipient a letter from them. There are more opportunities for misdirection - the mailing proxy service can internally shuffle letters around and add mailing delays to discourage external analysis. Although, even with all that, I'm unsure of the e…

More interesting if you could make a mechanical one that would remove one envelope and forward the letter. Then each data facility could reasonably process a few thousand letters a day, batching them for the postal service. After a few rounds of mixing, if there was significant facility-to-facility traffic, it would become impractical to find any specific letter's path. Time for real world implementations of our high…

The next step is building such a system for personal transportation pods, so nobody really knows where you're traveling ;-). However, you'll have to pack enough food to be shuffled across the country several times on underground pneumatic tubes as your personal carrier onion is unwrapped and retransmitted.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#166
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. From a strictly technical perspective (this is impractical), we could set up a warehouse somewhere in the country which accepted incoming mail (tagged with an ID number), dumped the entire package into a plain manilla envelope, then sent it on to the final address. The final address would be set up via an encrypted web service, so only you and the warehouse know who sent the mail & where the final destin…

You know, you're not obliged to put a return address on regular mail as long as it has sufficient postage. It's required for various kinds of commercial mail, or mail requiring special handling eg delivery confirmation).

Apparently (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5986011) the letter can still be tracked by looking up the return addresses and point of origin of letters with neighboring unique IDs.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#167
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion protesters used to write down the license plates... just some publicly available meta-data, right?

Yes. What is your point? Nobody has any expectation of a right to drive anonymously.

But they do have a right to privacy in their medical history. Recording license plate numbers at a hospital, abortion clinic, etc. is a violation of that right, even if it might otherwise be legal.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. What is your point? Nobody has any expectation of a right to drive anonymously.

But they do have a right to privacy in their medical history. Recording license plate numbers at a hospital, abortion clinic, etc. is a violation of that right, even if it might otherwise be legal.

That logic isn't obviously correct. People do not have a right to go about in public, to and from notorious places, in a 2-ton death monster that requires licensure and indemnification to operate, anonymously. People requiring a higher degree of privacy than that offered by cars would be better served taking their bicycles.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#169
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this century, we certainly can: do not have license plates at all, use radio beacons instead, which send encrypted copies of the plate. The police would be allowed to request decryption from the DMV (e.g., "running the plates"), and a few other authorized people, but the general public could not. The secret keys would be the weak point, and would have to be held only in a limited number of DMV data centers (which…

Sure, but then how do you tell the police that you just saw a black SUV with Massachusetts plates ending is 907 blow through a red light and almost run down an old lady with a cane at 7th and main? How would they ever find the driver or owner? While there are many ways to abuse the fact that license plates are publicly-visible (the aforementioned abortion protester being one example), there are still very legitimate…

While we're on the subject of a slippery slope of increasing police power, we might as well assume that eventually the people will have zero power and zero responsibility with regard to crime. In this hypothetical future, you won't need to tell the police you saw a black SUV almost run down a pedestrian; it's a police problem. This is the illogical end of abdicating personal responsibility in favor of total surveillance.

Re: U.S. Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement

#170

I have lived in a country (Taiwan under its previous dictatorial regime in the early 1980s) where I assumed that all my postal mail, domestic or foreign, was read by the ruling party's secret police as part of the delivery process. The postal service in Taiwan was always awesomely efficient when I lived there, with residential mail delivery twice a day all days of the week, year-round except for a brief set of holida…

> ...courage is what it takes to undermine a dictatorship Yes, and thanks for a great comment. I'm going to read that link, http://www.aeinstein.org/organizationsde07.html . Anger and hatred after 9/11 is what led us down this spiral, and more anger and hatred would only change the names, not the system.

Anger and hatred after 9/11 is what led us down this spiral

9/11 merely silenced the critics, allowing the power elite to bum rush the Constitution, aka the Shock Doctrine. Panopticon has always been the plan. There's always a plan, waiting for the opportunity.

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