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Bart employee salaries CSV

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Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#51

Post by derleth »

derleth wrote: post #49
casiotone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fucking absurd. Unions are unions OF WORKERS. A unions political power comes from the combined power of its members, who are citizens of the state and can thus be considered an accurate reflection of the citizens wishes . A corporation's political power comes from the top, and does not reflect anyone's wishes but the CEO.

> Unions are unions OF WORKERS. But there's still someone in charge. Who polices them? > A unions political power comes from the combined power of its members, who are citizens of the state and can thus be considered an accurate reflection of the citizens wishes. By this argument, we don't need anyone watching the government because it is elected by the people and so represents the will of the people.

Does anyone have refutations to these points, or are union people going to disagree by downvoting?

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#53

Post by casiotone »

derleth wrote: post #49
casiotone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fucking absurd. Unions are unions OF WORKERS. A unions political power comes from the combined power of its members, who are citizens of the state and can thus be considered an accurate reflection of the citizens wishes . A corporation's political power comes from the top, and does not reflect anyone's wishes but the CEO.

> Unions are unions OF WORKERS. But there's still someone in charge. Who polices them? > A unions political power comes from the combined power of its members, who are citizens of the state and can thus be considered an accurate reflection of the citizens wishes. By this argument, we don't need anyone watching the government because it is elected by the people and so represents the will of the people.

> But there's still someone in charge. Who polices them?

The union members vote on union matters. Do you know how unions work at all? Why are you talking as if you're an authority on unions when you don't even know this stuff?

> By this argument, we don't need anyone watching the government because it is elected by the people and so represents the will of the people.

Don't be ridiculous. The point is that a democratic organisation of workers exercising the collective political will of those members using the collective funds of those members, is quite clearly compatible with democracy, infinitely more so than companies spending billions to exercise the will of a small group of people at the top.

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#54

Post by readme »

netcan wrote: post #47
readme wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean the high end, or the low end? A college dropout can make a killing in Silicon Valley, if they are also: a talented software developer. OTOH, some of the other dropouts might end up working as BART train operators, who seem to make between 12 and 15k/yr, which is likely for full time, in a city where it costs about 1/4 of that just to scrape by on a monthly basis. It is not right to employ people at a wag…

Did you look at these numbers? Where do you think minimum wage applies here?

Yes, I actually looked quite thoroughly.

It applies in that the minimum wage is too low, so the bottom end of the workers have an extraordinarily unfair salary, in spite of the fact that they probably work 40+ hour weeks driving subway trains.

I have made a histogram to illustrate this problem: http://pastie.org/8106373

You can see from the data that the highest paid worker makes at least 25x the amount of the lowest paid worker.

This is not what I'd call fair. To be clear, it's not just the BART. We could do this with salary data from any municipality or corporation in the US.

I am operating on the assumption that many of the "train operators" are full time workers, which is not indicated in the data. I'd say it's a fairly good bet, though.

That is easily one of the most hazardous and unpleasant jobs, yet they are paid dirt. See, it doesn't matter how hard you work in our society. You can dig the dirtiest hole every day, sweat, and bleed, and you will be rewarded with a substandard wage. Instead, we reward the things that propel us forward, which does make sense: anyone can dig a hole. The problem is that not everyone has equal access to the means to acquire the skills which are so jealously rewarded. Yet, they do everything right anyway, work hard, and this is what they get. A 25x lower paying job than the highest paid executive.

We can fix this by raising the minimum wage to something fair. Australia has theirs at around $16 USD.

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#55

Post by casiotone »

derleth wrote: post #50
spikels wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage of members of the two BART unions that voted for the strike is also public. It was not close. SEIU 98.5% ATU 99.9% http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BART-workers-vote-to-a...

> The percentage of members of the two BART unions that voted for the strike is also public. It was not close. Those numbers (upwards of 90%) look like the numbers won by dictators in rigged elections. Who monitors the union voting process?

Union ballots are well regulated and usually even put incredibly unfair restrictions on the unions. They achieve this result in a very simple way:

Their members want it.

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#56

Post by waps »

zobzu wrote: post #40
spamizbad wrote: post #12

Wow, some of these public servants make as much money as a 19 year old college dropout in Silicon Valley.

according to this table, most managers make more than an average sr engineer actually when you count the bonuses... in fact, a police officer makes as much as i do, but he has more bonuses than i do, for example. I find that pretty high. Or are we all getting $400K a year w/ bonus and I didn't get the memo? Its only the lower end of the chain that gets shitty salaries at bart as well

Yeah I find it rather unsettling as well. The Chief engineer, presumably the highest paid technical guy :

Bay Area Rapid Transit,Chief Engineer,Maint & Engineering Admin,"$170,383",$0,"$3,466","$15,753","$20,385","$12,032","$1,869","$4,465","$228,353"

Not badly paid, but note the financial guys of the firm :

Bay Area Rapid Transit,Asst Controller,Assistant Controller,"$107,785",$0,"$214,322","$10,903","$13,017","$7,650","$1,869","$5,734","$361,279"

He has "half" the pay of the chief engineer and DOUBLE his salary in "Other" compensation. Hmmmmmm.

Bay Area Rapid Transit,Asst Treasurer,Assistant Treasurer,"$33,971",$0,"$289,534","$1,797","$4,072","$2,378","$1,869","$4,897","$338,518"

Same

Bay Area Rapid Transit,Asst Treasurer,Assistant Treasurer,"$33,971",$0,"$289,534","$1,797","$4,072","$2,378","$1,869","$4,897","$338,518"

Wow. Base compensation is $30k and look at the total. What the hell ?

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#57

Post by carlyle4545 »

readme wrote: post #54
netcan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you look at these numbers? Where do you think minimum wage applies here?

Yes, I actually looked quite thoroughly. It applies in that the minimum wage is too low, so the bottom end of the workers have an extraordinarily unfair salary, in spite of the fact that they probably work 40+ hour weeks driving subway trains. I have made a histogram to illustrate this problem: http://pastie.org/8106373 You can see from the data that the highest paid worker makes at least 25x the amount of the lowest…

If the US passed legislation to raise the minimum wage to a rate you feel is "fair" (whatever that means), how do you propose the Fed deals with the rampant inflation that'll surely erase any perceived benefits of said legislation?

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#58

Post by readme »

carlyle4545 wrote: post #57
readme wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I actually looked quite thoroughly. It applies in that the minimum wage is too low, so the bottom end of the workers have an extraordinarily unfair salary, in spite of the fact that they probably work 40+ hour weeks driving subway trains. I have made a histogram to illustrate this problem: http://pastie.org/8106373 You can see from the data that the highest paid worker makes at least 25x the amount of the lowest…

If the US passed legislation to raise the minimum wage to a rate you feel is "fair" (whatever that means), how do you propose the Fed deals with the rampant inflation that'll surely erase any perceived benefits of said legislation?

The actual demand for goods and services which would rise as a result of the lower class having enough money to actually buy them is not the main driver of inflation. The main driver of inflation is the printing of more money which is inherit in our fiat currency system.

I advocate a return to a resource-based fractional reserve system as a way of mitigating inflation overall.

Since Nixon took the US off the gold standard, credit use has spiraled out of control: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/bulletin/2000/0900lead.pd...

You want to talk about increased demand causing inflation? Look no further than consumer credit.

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#59

Post by netcan »

readme wrote: post #54
netcan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you look at these numbers? Where do you think minimum wage applies here?

Yes, I actually looked quite thoroughly. It applies in that the minimum wage is too low, so the bottom end of the workers have an extraordinarily unfair salary, in spite of the fact that they probably work 40+ hour weeks driving subway trains. I have made a histogram to illustrate this problem: http://pastie.org/8106373 You can see from the data that the highest paid worker makes at least 25x the amount of the lowest…

Sorry. I didn't mean to be rude.

Some titles have PT in them. i assume this means part time.

If there were a large number of full time workers earning around minimum wage, I would expect to see a lot of salaries around 20k p/a. Only ~1% of total compensations are between $17-$23k and they all have job titles that can be found above and bell that band. About half have PT in the title and I assume others are something else other than full time.

Anyone above that band wouldn't be impacted by an increase in minimum wage. Anyone below that band is part time and may be earning near minimum wage, but most probably aren't.

I don't have a problem with minimum wages. But, it don't look like an increase would impact here anyway.

Re: Bart employee salaries CSV

#60

Post by netcan »

waps wrote: post #56
zobzu wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

according to this table, most managers make more than an average sr engineer actually when you count the bonuses... in fact, a police officer makes as much as i do, but he has more bonuses than i do, for example. I find that pretty high. Or are we all getting $400K a year w/ bonus and I didn't get the memo? Its only the lower end of the chain that gets shitty salaries at bart as well

Yeah I find it rather unsettling as well. The Chief engineer, presumably the highest paid technical guy : Bay Area Rapid Transit,Chief Engineer,Maint & Engineering Admin,"$170,383",$0,"$3,466","$15,753","$20,385","$12,032","$1,869","$4,465","$228,353" Not badly paid, but note the financial guys of the firm : Bay Area Rapid Transit,Asst Controller,Assistant Controller,"$107,785",$0,"$214,322","$10,903","$13,017","$7,6…

That's what you find unsettling?!

Half of the top (over $200k) jobs are police.

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