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Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

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161–170 of 227 posts

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#161
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, historically mass education of the type we now employ is only about a century old, and designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity. Learning to handle monotonous boredom and obey orders was of primary importance to a factory worker. Second, much of this is unprecedented. When my parents were children, they didn't attend Kindergarten, and first grade was a half day. When my parents younger sib…

On /r/askhistorians someone asked about this idea that universal education was brought about to raise a nation of docile factory workers. Here's the thread, the idea gets debunked pretty hard http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1hbezd/was_th...

I don't think that thread is convincing. The one substantial comment makes assertions with very little evidence. Here's some evidence:

Rockefeller's General Education Board wrote the following in 1906:

  "In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our 
  molding hands. The present educational conventions fade from our 
  minds, and unhampered by
  tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive
  folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children
  into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not
  to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of
  letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters,
  musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen,
  of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is
  very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a
  perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an
  imperfect way."
In 1915, the Carnegie and Rockefeller organizations together were spending more to promote and directly fund primary education than the entire government.

President Woodrow Wilson (one of our most academic presidents) said this to a gathering of industrial leaders:

  "We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class,
  a very much larger class of necessity, to forgo the privilege of a
  liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."
It is well-documented that the push for mandatory public education in the US also had a big xenophobic component. Protestants of Northern European descent were horrified by all the "dirty", "drunken", Catholic Southern European and/or Irish immigrants who didn't share their culture. Literal battles were fought over who was going to take those children and indoctrinate them into one culture or another. Mandatory public education was not about uplift per se, it was about conformity. (It's supporters would call it uplift, but only because they were xenophobic bigots.)

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#162
post #149

I had a H.S. teacher admit to my mother that she was grading me on a scale that included how "distracted" I was by my girlfriend in the class. Little did she know that we had broken up months prior, and every guy in the class was probably distracted by her at some point. I had a second teacher that was giving myself and my friends lower grades in computer class, because we were "goofing off" -- making websites, chat…

That reminds me of the time my History teacher called up my mom when I was in 9th grade. Teacher: Yes, hi. Your son isn't taking notes in class, even though he is required to. Mom: Well, what did he get on his midterm? Teacher: 100 Mom: :| Goodbye.

My parents were rather "amused" that I could almost be failing a class that taught you how to Open a document, bold text, and save, while at the same time as having self-made business cards and brochures and revenue from teaching Office '97 to professional folk and another service of building corporate web-portals.

My HS was really progressive, as the other 5 in town barely offered a typing class, and it's only gotten better for my school -- a Charter school.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#163

School is half education and half babysitting. The problem is that schools aren't aware of that, and they try to cram too much learning/work into a day at school. Kids just don't have the attention span. College isn't taught this way. Colleges realize that even young adults can't handle 40 hours a week of continual instruction, why do we do this kids can? I think the reason, is that we're always behind other countrie…

How many teachers in the past were men? I went to primary school in the 80ies (Austria) and had only female teachers. Which completely sucks as those women do. not. understand. young boys. Any natural behavior by young girls is good, any natural behavior by boys is distracting. You can't do that ad nauseum. My step-son, 10years, had a male teacher for 3 years. What an amazing difference that makes. It's a mixture of…

Teaching became a female job around the early 1900s, but I don't remember why now... I need to find it again.

I once had a male teacher when I was 12 or something like that, he managed to engage both male and female students with pure awesomeness.

Also when male students had a problem, this teacher was the automatic go-to one.

Later during the end years of the school, I went to a elite one focused to get people into university no matter what (yet in my year 90% failed, while all previous years they had a 90% of success, and the only change is that on my year affirmative action went into effect), then I had balanced male and female teachers, usually the male teachers were way more popular (sometimes too much... ie: one of them got fired multiple times for having sex with female students, and then hired back because students demanded him back...), maybe because as you said, they tended to allow people do random shit (in fact, sometimes they joined the fray too, one teacher destroyed a lamp by accident after throwing a shoe across the room), but were also hard to crack down if needed (the sex with students teachers only once threw people out of the class in about 15 years of career, two female students that insisted in chatting REALLY LOUD and after it bothered him too much, he said: "Ugly near the fat, you two, out", after the news of that incident spread few people ever bothered in challenging him again, since it was quite clear he was ruthless if he wanted to).

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#164
post #40

Are there any private all-boys[1] schools that embrace this side of childhood? Look at tiger cubs and what not: they play, they bounce around, they fight, they figure out the world around them through investigation and exploration. I spent so much of my time outside as a kid, but I also spent a lot of time inside on the computer. Both were amazing worlds where your imagination could run wild; especially in the early…

It would alienate some young boys, too. There are a lot of stereotypes in these comments.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#165

One of the guiding objectives of the current cohort of education thought leaders is to focus on girls. So, we're focusing on girls. Boys, time for your pills. My personal goal is to figure out how to make enough money to keep my children out of the insanity of public schools.

In my experiences with three children in US public schools, this is not true.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gave me silly putty to harness my fidgeting. I soon discovered silly putty can be made into a bouncy ball, that I could use to distract everyone.

My son's classroom has employed smaller versions of exercise balls to keep some of the kids focused (including my own). It's interesting to observe. The kids are fidgety and restless while sitting, but when you sit them on one of these the subconscious motor control going on seems to quell the foreground restlessness.

My son gets to do his tests on a yoga ball, and it works very well.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#167

I am surprised to see that none of the comments really comment or reflect upon the issue this article brings up, which is that for boys to thrive they need to be taught differently. If we can actually create ciriculum that allows them to excel why would we not do this? I know that the main point against it would be that young girls perhaps would not thrive in such a system. Yet I think we have to find a balance betwe…

I bet girls would do just fine, and a sane combination of approaches works best. The biggest issue with schools is that everybody thinks they know how to fix stuff, but the research is spotty at best. Standardized tests and core curriculums? Differentiated learning or academic tiers? We all have opinions, and there are many in this thread, but not all of these opinions can be simultaneously right.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#168
post #53
post #24

Although I was a generally calm student (I am introverted and not into causing mayhem or attracting attention), I never copied from the blackboard, don't did my homework, slept during classes, or instead kept drawing, or later writing ASM code or toying with physics formulas, or I just outright spent my time chatting about video games with whoever was nearby. Every time I had a new teacher, my parents were called int…

To be honest, it's probably good you fidget constantly just for blood flow. Sitting still all day gets you airplane traveler afflictions like deep vein thrombosis.

Even better than fidgeting is surely getting up and moving around.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps there would be less classroom disruption if friends could have time together outside of the one class they took together knowing that would be the only time they could be together? There is. School ends at 2:30, upon which point they can enlist in formal or informal shared after-school activities. Turning classes into a free-for-all where no one needs to afford the teacher and other students any respect for…

Problem is, there are no buses that take the kids home from their after-school activities. I don't know where you live, but there are many school districts in the US where kids can't walk home or expect their parents to drive them to and from school or a friend's house. When I was in school, my house was an hour and a half bus ride from school. My parents worked in the other direction. Outside of being at school, the…

We had buses to do exactly that. The "sports bus" departed at 6 p.m. every day; there weren't a lot of the buses, because not everyone did afterschool activities, but everyone who needed a ride got on the appropriate bus (east or west, as I recall) which dropped them to their home. It was free, too.

This was a rural school district, about 60 students in my class, and the district extended something like 20 miles in each direction from the town.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#170

School is half education and half babysitting. The problem is that schools aren't aware of that, and they try to cram too much learning/work into a day at school. Kids just don't have the attention span. College isn't taught this way. Colleges realize that even young adults can't handle 40 hours a week of continual instruction, why do we do this kids can? I think the reason, is that we're always behind other countrie…

Yours is an interesting comment, but none of it is responsive to the submitted article's concern about differences between boys and girls in school. I have actually lived in another country, and I am aware by direct observation that that country has BOTH higher academic achievement by school pupils than the United States and pervasive recess periods during the school day when young children get outdoors and exercise.…

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