Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#121

Post by yk » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:16 PM UTC

aluhut wrote: post #58

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been polling as to whether support for German Pirate Party has increased?

They don't get the media attention (if they are doing something at all). My biggest fear is that the Liberals (FDP) gain votes through this...

Perhaps one should translate to American: The Greens are the liberals in German politics, the FDP is the free market party, which results in a mix of libertarian and crony capitalist politics. (Similar to the pro business wing of the republicans.)

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#122

Post by julianpye » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:22 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #100

julianpye wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the downvote? The cell planned and coordinated with AQ while they were living in Germany and the BND did not detect their activities. Since then the US intensified their activities in Germany. I am not saying this is fair for Germany or not, but it's simply a logical conclusion from the US point of view in light of activities such as the patriot act and the creation of the DoHS.

I did not downvote you, only verbally if you will. But I will elaborate, to me it sounded as if you were saying that the NSA is only ever going after terrorists [whatever that even means, considering activists also seem to fall under that umbrella], so no matter what they do, it must be required to fight terrorism. By definition. [that's a great way to create fiscal black holes, but rather shoddy reasoning] So why wa…

I personally find it problematic that such an infrastructure is set up, because it can be used for industrial espionage (which is also a matter of national security). So anyway, I don't trust :) But my point was just that if the NSA has these surveillance programs all over the world, it should not surprise Germany that they are under stronger observation by them than for example the UK, which operates a CCTV surveillance state and shares all its data with the US.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#123

Post by lesslaw » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:23 PM UTC

julianpye wrote: post #77

PavlovsCat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I could see not trusting the competence of the BND on this stuff... but 500 million messages per month? How many phone calls, e-mails and SMS does Germany generate per month in total, by the way? I would assume corporations generate a lot more than individuals, but it seems fucking bad either way.

The BND has a tradition to focus on political extremist groups in Germany, while domestic surveillance in the other large EU countries such as Britain, France and Spain have always had a stronger focus on Islamist groups. So I don't think it's a question of competence, but rather of focus.

Not the IRA and ETA ?

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#124

Post by FrojoS » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

chj wrote: post #16

Seriously, what has Germany done to harm America after the war?

"Its the economy stupid." Industrial espionage. Innovation that can be copied.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#125

Post by sentenza » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:38 PM UTC

kybernetyk wrote: post #4

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been polling as to whether support for German Pirate Party has increased?

Probably not because our Pirate Party is only known for drama and the media portrays them as an disorganized bunch of kids who fight over internal power. Not that the media would be particularly wrong with this. When the party was founded I had some hopes ... now I have given up on them.

Don't read the mailing lists, they're public and thus a trollfest. I was also somewhat disillusioned in the recent months, but that is over now. I went out setting up campaign advertisement signs in 2009 and I'm doing it again this year.

This is our only chance. Remember, even though some of the Berlin scene wish to "reboot" the Pirate Party in a way that is more to their liking, it is far too late for that. The Pirate Party has seats in west German state parliaments, which is a lot more valuable as a gauge for the chance of success than what the blogosphere thinks. If we fail now, after having come so far, then the project is eternally burned. We are at 2-3 % and the party is well beyond 10000 members. This is the window of opportunity to make a difference.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#126

Post by mars » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:39 PM UTC

aw3c2 wrote: post #120

cabalamat wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germans are pissed (We take privacy serious [1]). They're expecting the EU and chancellor Merkel to do something or she's going to have a really tough time being re-elected in the fall. How is this affecting the Pirates' poll ratings? If they hold the balance of power in the Bundestag, it's likely the next German government would have to do something.

The Pirate party in Germany has become such a sad display of juvenile trolling, aggressive genderism and political incompetence that I doubt their numbers will increase.

+1. unfortunately the german pirate party is badly organized, suffers from having no real leadership and thus they don't have a clear road (nor program). i'm gonna vote for them anyhow - just because it's better having them in the bundestag than not.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#127

Post by fnordfnordfnord » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:42 PM UTC

beedogs wrote: post #63

And this is how the US treats its "allies". I can see this having far-reaching consequences in international relations, all of them negative, for America.

Except that most of these nations are willing participants in the spying programs. They may make noises to try and pacify the electorate, but I doubt the governments are interested in changing much.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#128

Post by sentenza » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 2:51 PM UTC

aluhut wrote: post #58

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been polling as to whether support for German Pirate Party has increased?

They don't get the media attention (if they are doing something at all). My biggest fear is that the Liberals (FDP) gain votes through this...

Here is some useful info to avoid this from happening: Whenever it comes up in conversation that the FDP might be a viable alternative, tell people that an FDP man acted as a mole for the US during the last coalition negotiations[1]. The party leadership made him a lone gunman, but hey had to be pushed by their base to ostracize him.

Also, if, during coalition negotiations, there is a choice between more privacy for everybody or Westerwelle retaining his post as Minister of Foreign Affairs, what will they chose? Bringing up that question is usually sufficient to get people to distance themselves from the thought of voting for the FDP.

[1] http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#129

Post by tomjen3 » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 3:18 PM UTC

Udo wrote: post #113

weinzierl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He would only stand a chance for asylum in Germany if he classifies as under political repression. Application in an embassy is not possible. If he would manage to come to Germany he could not be extradited if there is a real risk of torture or death penalty.

Depending on whether the German government thinks it's worth the hassle, I think a reasonably good case could be made that he does indeed qualify for political asylum. Especially since this article suggests the US sees itself in the middle a cold war with the EU/Germany (...of all places. One would think that China is the enemy, but apparently one would be wrong).

If anything, this proves that the US leadership has gone of the rails. Nobody in western Europe considers the US the enemy or even a competitor. We consider them good friends.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#130

Post by Steph0r » Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 3:19 PM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #108

JulienSchmidt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least not by law http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&ie=UTF-8&u... And yes, the US army bases in Germany are left overs from the allied occupation after WW II

The Heidelberg base is being abandoned by 2015. Lots of free space for student buildings! :)

If Heidelberg's administration is anything like Darmstadt's, the buildings will be abandoned and empty but well guarded till they fall into a state of dilapidation. At least by now none of the well maintained and repaired buildings there have been turned into student homes.