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Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

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Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#81

Post by inaudible »

3825 wrote: post #71
weinzierl wrote: post #7

"A confidential classification shows that the NSA considered the Federal Republic does as a partner, but also as an attack target. Thus, Germany is one of the so-called third-class partners. Specifically excluded from espionage attacks are Canada, Australia, Britain and New Zealand, which are performed as a second category. "We can attack the signals of most foreign partner third class - and to do so," it said in a p…

I find it interesting that the set of five countries: UK, US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. I'd like to know how the US came up with this list. Is it because we speak the same language? Is it because we share the same heritage? Where does this leave France? What did France do to us that we need to spy on them? To gain some perspective here, imagine this scenario where Germany was in the US' position and it make…

Judging by the revealed alliance with GCHQ in UK, and the long term history of joined espionage programs here in Australia, there is a good chance that top tier list are already in strategic negotiations with the US and the NSA.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#82

Post by Create »

chj wrote: post #16

Seriously, what has Germany done to harm America after the war?

It is economical harm, which impedes and on the long run destroys hegemony.

Recent examples: Opel attempting to buy itself out of GM (saved by Gov't bailout), Creditor Deutche Bank National Trustcompany (housing debt), most SV chip machinery comes from DE such as Zeiss etc.

Overall, the single biggest problem is the € and the success of western Europe (it seems one might take Bruxelles bureaucrats for terrorists). Most of the decisions for the € is taken from Frankfurt given it is almost a refitted DM, and which needs to be countered by all means (ie. proxies such as Greece).

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#83

Post by corin_ »

Schlaefer wrote: post #72
corin_ wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That magazine cover is tomorrow's so that makes sense, but the way he worded it suggests that two days running it was on the "front page". And I think that using "on their front page" when talking about the website of a magazine is misleading, in part simply because it suggests magazine not website, and in part because being on the front page of their website really means absolutely nothing when it comes to importanc…

The Spiegel homepage is hugely popular in Germany. Look at the table on the bottom [1]. Note that the data is a little bit older and Bild is yellow press and recently introduced a pay wall. If a topic is prominent on the Spiegel homepage mainstream Germany will talk about it. [1] http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=ht...

I get that it's popular, but still.. maybe it's just a cultural difference, I don't think in the UK we would specify website (e.g. "it's on the front page of The Guardian's website"), and even then I don't think we'd refer to the front page of a newspaper/magazine's website as a big deal, we'd maybe specifically highlight how prominent on the front page it is.

I mean, on Spiegel.de right now, sure the NSA story is at the top, but other items that could be described as being "on the front page" include BBC Nature: The man who lives with the grizzlies, F1: Hulkenberg Sauber team threatens to bankrupt and Jennifer Lopez in Turkmenistan, to pick out a few.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#84

Post by Keyframe »

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #74
Keyframe wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like that would ever happen. Especially in a country where US runs the shop since the end of WW2.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I disagree that the US runs Germany. Or what do you mean by saying "the US runs the shop since the end of WW2"? Yes, the US has stationed troops and nuclear missels in Germany but this is far from "running the shop".

I seriously doubt that even today Germany has a final say without US weighing in first in anything related to their military, intelligence, foreign policies. France on the other hand plays hard ball, I'd like to see something like that escalate in France.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#85

Post by aluhut »

JulienSchmidt wrote: post #73
aluhut wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't get the media attention (if they are doing something at all). My biggest fear is that the Liberals (FDP) gain votes through this...

Why would the FDP profit from this? AFAIK they never positioned themselves in favor of privacy. I think the green party (Bündnis 90 / Die Grüne) will profit considerably more from this. They are know promoters of privacy and personal rights. "Die Linke" could also profit from this.

Of course they did. They made their position against the Vorratsdatenspeicherung several times in the last years (See their statement here: http://www.fdp-fraktion.de/Vorratsdatenspeicherung-nicht-bes... ).

With Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger they also have the last privacy wall before the Constitutional Court.

They of course have absolutly no problems with corporate data mining...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#86

Post by chj »

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #74
Keyframe wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like that would ever happen. Especially in a country where US runs the shop since the end of WW2.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I disagree that the US runs Germany. Or what do you mean by saying "the US runs the shop since the end of WW2"? Yes, the US has stationed troops and nuclear missels in Germany but this is far from "running the shop".

Interesting. Is the US army inside Germany a left over from cold war? Do they have the capability to own the country if necessary?

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#87

Post by PavlovsCat »

julianpye wrote: post #77
PavlovsCat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I could see not trusting the competence of the BND on this stuff... but 500 million messages per month? How many phone calls, e-mails and SMS does Germany generate per month in total, by the way? I would assume corporations generate a lot more than individuals, but it seems fucking bad either way.

The BND has a tradition to focus on political extremist groups in Germany, while domestic surveillance in the other large EU countries such as Britain, France and Spain have always had a stronger focus on Islamist groups. So I don't think it's a question of competence, but rather of focus.

The BND has a tradition to focus on political extremist groups in Germany

Which is actually one of the reasons they seem so incompetent, they're not very good at that. [also, did you perchance confuse the BND with the Verfassungsschutz? Not that it matters, the Verfassungsschutz is probably worse than the BND, they help Neonazis more than harming them] Also, BND officials say some hilarious stuff when it comes to computers.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#88

Post by arethuza »

muuh-gnu wrote: post #52
bayesianhorse wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Germany was more of a "target", and considering involvements of the German muslim minority in 9/11 this isn't very surprising either. Still I really don't like what the NSA is doing to us...

Considering the massive immigration of Muslims and their continuing radicalization instead of assimilation, the whole of western Europe including Germany is going to turn into an "enemy" 20-30 years down the road. Europe is an US ally today not because of the geography, but because of the Europeans. But the Europeans have mostly given up making babies and will in 1-2 generations be mostly replaced by more fertile Mus…

You seem to think that if someone isn't "White British" then they are automatically a Muslim extremist.

The ethnic breakdown of London is far more complex than that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London

At the moment, about 8.5% of London's population is Muslim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_London

Also worth noting is that across the UK the Muslims only make up 2.7% of the population:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom

I'm completely mystified how anyone could see this tiny minority as a threat - especially, as far as I can see, the overwhelming majority of this community are as decent and law-abiding as everyone else.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#89

Post by weinzierl »

mtgx wrote: post #57

This would be a good opportunity for Germany/EU to give Snowden asylum, if only to show US that they screwed up so much, it's EU itself, their ally, who will give him asylum.

He would only stand a chance for asylum in Germany if he classifies as under political repression.

Application in an embassy is not possible. If he would manage to come to Germany he could not be extradited if there is a real risk of torture or death penalty.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#90

Post by 9h1d9j809s »

Keyframe wrote: post #84
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I disagree that the US runs Germany. Or what do you mean by saying "the US runs the shop since the end of WW2"? Yes, the US has stationed troops and nuclear missels in Germany but this is far from "running the shop".

I seriously doubt that even today Germany has a final say without US weighing in first in anything related to their military, intelligence, foreign policies. France on the other hand plays hard ball, I'd like to see something like that escalate in France.

I think Germany is fairly autonomous. However the conservative parties are basically US fanboys.
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