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Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

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Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#71

"A confidential classification shows that the NSA considered the Federal Republic does as a partner, but also as an attack target. Thus, Germany is one of the so-called third-class partners. Specifically excluded from espionage attacks are Canada, Australia, Britain and New Zealand, which are performed as a second category. "We can attack the signals of most foreign partner third class - and to do so," it said in a p…

I find it interesting that the set of five countries: UK, US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. I'd like to know how the US came up with this list. Is it because we speak the same language? Is it because we share the same heritage? Where does this leave France? What did France do to us that we need to spy on them?

To gain some perspective here, imagine this scenario where Germany was in the US' position and it makes a list of countries: Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, and Switzerland as nations to exclude from espionage attacks. Imagine that we are in a military alliance with them (NATO) and Germany has military bases spread across the US.

Would that not make you feel uneasy to suddenly learn one day that not only you are a possible military target but also that you are an active espionage target? How can you trust someone who does not trust you and feels the need to spy on everything you do and every word you say?

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#72
post #67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He means both: http://www.spiegel.de/ and http://wissen.spiegel.de/wissen/titel/SP/2013/27/300/titel.j...

That magazine cover is tomorrow's so that makes sense, but the way he worded it suggests that two days running it was on the "front page". And I think that using "on their front page" when talking about the website of a magazine is misleading, in part simply because it suggests magazine not website, and in part because being on the front page of their website really means absolutely nothing when it comes to importanc…

The Spiegel homepage is hugely popular in Germany.

Look at the table on the bottom [1]. Note that the data is a little bit older and Bild is yellow press and recently introduced a pay wall.

If a topic is prominent on the Spiegel homepage mainstream Germany will talk about it.

[1] http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=ht...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#73
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been polling as to whether support for German Pirate Party has increased?

They don't get the media attention (if they are doing something at all). My biggest fear is that the Liberals (FDP) gain votes through this...

Why would the FDP profit from this? AFAIK they never positioned themselves in favor of privacy.

I think the green party (Bündnis 90 / Die Grüne) will profit considerably more from this. They are know promoters of privacy and personal rights. "Die Linke" could also profit from this.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#74
post #57

This would be a good opportunity for Germany/EU to give Snowden asylum, if only to show US that they screwed up so much, it's EU itself, their ally, who will give him asylum.

Like that would ever happen. Especially in a country where US runs the shop since the end of WW2.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I disagree that the US runs Germany. Or what do you mean by saying "the US runs the shop since the end of WW2"?

Yes, the US has stationed troops and nuclear missels in Germany but this is far from "running the shop".

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#76
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't get the media attention (if they are doing something at all). My biggest fear is that the Liberals (FDP) gain votes through this...

Why would the FDP profit from this? AFAIK they never positioned themselves in favor of privacy. I think the green party (Bündnis 90 / Die Grüne) will profit considerably more from this. They are know promoters of privacy and personal rights. "Die Linke" could also profit from this.

The liberals are very vocal about privacy and interfering of the state in the people's affairs. They just don't do a very good job making people aware of these positions...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that even relevant? How does that justify the interception of 500 million messages per month?

Yes. I could see not trusting the competence of the BND on this stuff... but 500 million messages per month? How many phone calls, e-mails and SMS does Germany generate per month in total, by the way? I would assume corporations generate a lot more than individuals, but it seems fucking bad either way.

The BND has a tradition to focus on political extremist groups in Germany, while domestic surveillance in the other large EU countries such as Britain, France and Spain have always had a stronger focus on Islamist groups. So I don't think it's a question of competence, but rather of focus.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#78
BTW if someone wants non-google-translated reads, Spiegel has international version in English. Some links:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/nsa-spied-on-euro...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/jakob-augstein-d...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-officials-furi...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#79
post #56
post #2

Original (this is on the front page of Spiegel today): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-ueberwacht-50... This was also posted yesterday (was on yesterday's front page of Spiegel): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-hat-wanzen-in... Article says that the NSA used bugs to spy on EU offices. Both articles, the comments of SPON (SPiegel ONline): Germans are pissed (We take privacy serious [1]).…

Isn't Der Spiegel a weekly release? Or when you say "front page" do you mean "of their website"?

Correct, the proper terminology is Spiegel Online (SPON) and "Der Spiegel". SPON is very popular among Germans and has been one of the best journalistic sources of Germany. It's also received the embassy cables last year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_diplomatic_cable...

with El Pais, Le Mond, The Guardin and NYT.

For this very story: It has received some new presentation slides in the recent days that it's currently publishing. The FAZ and other German newspapers are referencing SPON for this particular story. So for this story SPON is the first/primary source.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Germany was more of a "target", and considering involvements of the German muslim minority in 9/11 this isn't very surprising either. Still I really don't like what the NSA is doing to us...

Considering the massive immigration of Muslims and their continuing radicalization instead of assimilation, the whole of western Europe including Germany is going to turn into an "enemy" 20-30 years down the road. Europe is an US ally today not because of the geography, but because of the Europeans. But the Europeans have mostly given up making babies and will in 1-2 generations be mostly replaced by more fertile Mus…

Spot on. I am surprised you are not down voted by the hordes of politically correct people here.
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