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Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

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Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eavesdropping or even "hacking" attacks don't have to be military in nature.

That is correct. But in case of the US Internet War, it is. Hacking done by the NSA on a foreign country is not not military in nature.

What "internet war" are you talking about? And although the NSA is an agency of the US DoD, I don't think they would consider all targets of their eavesdropping measures as "military" targets.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#52
post #17

That headline is blatant editorialising and whether or not you consider what the NSA is apparently doing as an indication they view Germany as an enemy, the text of the article does not in any way support that the NSA itself sees it that way. (in case it is modified, this is the headline as of writing: "NSA: Germany considered an enemy. Intercepting 500mill messages per month")

I agree. Germany was more of a "target", and considering involvements of the German muslim minority in 9/11 this isn't very surprising either. Still I really don't like what the NSA is doing to us...

Considering the massive immigration of Muslims and their continuing radicalization instead of assimilation, the whole of western Europe including Germany is going to turn into an "enemy" 20-30 years down the road.

Europe is an US ally today not because of the geography, but because of the Europeans. But the Europeans have mostly given up making babies and will in 1-2 generations be mostly replaced by more fertile Muslims hostile to the US.

For example the English population in the capital of the UK, has fallen below 50%. The English are already a ethnic minority in their own capital. It is just a matter of time when the people making decision about the UK nuke arsenal and military infrastructure are Muslims loyal not to the Queen but to Pakistan, Somalia or some other Jihadi US hating shithole.

It would be silly to declare a quickly dying/changing continent an perpetual ally and stop monitoring them just because they have been allies 20 years ago.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#53
post #21
post #17

That headline is blatant editorialising and whether or not you consider what the NSA is apparently doing as an indication they view Germany as an enemy, the text of the article does not in any way support that the NSA itself sees it that way. (in case it is modified, this is the headline as of writing: "NSA: Germany considered an enemy. Intercepting 500mill messages per month")

"Aus einer vertraulichen Klassifizierung geht hervor, dass die NSA die Bundesrepublik zwar als Partner, zugleich aber auch als Angriffsziel betrachtet" ... sees Germany as a "military target". You're right, I should've used "military target" instead of enemy

In addition to the comments below, consider that these are presumably translations from an English source document. I'd be shocked if the original documents referenced by Der Spiegel used the term "military target" as opposed to simply "target".

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#54
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is correct. But in case of the US Internet War, it is. Hacking done by the NSA on a foreign country is not not military in nature.

What "internet war" are you talking about? And although the NSA is an agency of the US DoD, I don't think they would consider all targets of their eavesdropping measures as "military" targets.

The current one: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/18/opinion/schneier-cyberwar-...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#56
post #2

Original (this is on the front page of Spiegel today): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-ueberwacht-50... This was also posted yesterday (was on yesterday's front page of Spiegel): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-hat-wanzen-in... Article says that the NSA used bugs to spy on EU offices. Both articles, the comments of SPON (SPiegel ONline): Germans are pissed (We take privacy serious [1]).…

Isn't Der Spiegel a weekly release? Or when you say "front page" do you mean "of their website"?

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#58
post #2

Original (this is on the front page of Spiegel today): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-ueberwacht-50... This was also posted yesterday (was on yesterday's front page of Spiegel): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-hat-wanzen-in... Article says that the NSA used bugs to spy on EU offices. Both articles, the comments of SPON (SPiegel ONline): Germans are pissed (We take privacy serious [1]).…

Has there been polling as to whether support for German Pirate Party has increased?

They don't get the media attention (if they are doing something at all). My biggest fear is that the Liberals (FDP) gain votes through this...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#59

What have they ever done to deserve that?

Here are some reasons:

* Germany was at the frontline in the cold war. So Germany is traditionally both a target and a host of US spy activities.

* Germany hosts important US military facilities: US nuclear bombs, US central commands for Europe and Africa, military airports, military logistics, military hospitals.

* Germany was reunited with a communist part, which was under the influence of the soviet union. Thus it hosts a lot of former communists, former Stasi (East German State security, ...), a lot of KGB contacts, etc.

* from Germany it is easy to spy on East Europe

* Germany has a successful industry which is a great target. Germany has about 1500 so-called hidden champions, SMEs active in (often high-tech) niche markets and dominating them. Germany has SAP, one of the largest software companies world-wide, whose software is used at the core of the business of most of the large companies world-wide.

* Germany is a part of the EU, something which the US likes to understand and influence

* Germany has no direct border controls to neighbor countries, so there is a lot of illegal immigration to Germany, which makes it interesting for the US

* Germany is very active in high-tech and especially the Internet. Germany hosts one of the most important Internet exchange nodes.

* Germany has deep trade and diplomatic relations with Russia and China.

* Germany hosts some international relevant institutions, above all the European Central Bank.

* Germany has a relatively large military industry and exports military goods (tanks, airplanes, submarines, ships, satellites, ...).

* Germany has active left and green parties. Suspicious!

Plus Germany lost WWII and had to give up rights, some of them the US still has - so it may be still legal for the US to spy in Germany.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#60
post #16

Seriously, what has Germany done to harm America after the war?

They are a strong component of the European Union which is designed to act as a large trading block and compete with the US. The Euro is a competitor to the US Dollar. As the Euro displaces the USD throug out Europe, the US loses more of its "exorbitant Privilege" in being able to print money and export the inflation to the rest of the world.
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