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Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

mcclatchydc.com

211–220 of 226 posts

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#211
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying to take Obamacare seriously. Sure, it's a serious issue, and no doubt in the 2000 pages of the bill and the 10s of thousands of pages of 'regulations' there is some good thinking. But my overwhelming impression is that Obamacare was, in the end, poorly designed. Maybe enough writers of 'regulations' can make it helpful, but I doubt it. I just believe that the whole thing was politics, not healthcare. O…

Congress already has healthcare (tremendously good healthcare), so obviously they wouldn't want to replace it with Obamacare, as that is only what is good enough for everyone. Instead they will simply say the existing Congressional pension/healthcare system meets PPACA requirements and call it a day. That's the same thing they did for military Tricare health care (which is as socialist as they come, by the way :P). I…

Yes, there are problems now, e.g., "how many people have nothing else to rely on.".

But, really, the existing system has faced such problems for a long time and put in place a complicated, disorganized, collection of pieces, patchwork, to respond to it. E.g., there is the Hill-Burton hospital act where to build a hospital can get Federal money but then can't turn away patients who can't pay. So, do 'cost shifting' and charge more for patients who can pay. Or have a city run and funded hospital. Patchwork.

Could we improve it? To borrow from Cheney, no doubt. Could we make it worse? No doubt.

To me, the 'sausage making' process of Obamacare promises a poorly designed product. And the origins and motivations of Obamacare concern me: As I recall, really Obamacare was in its first drafts (did anyone read the 2000 pages enough to do a second draft?) was basically pulled off the shelf from where it had been stored by a health care team under Senator Ted Kennedy. There the dream, Ted did like the "dream", was simple -- socialized medicine.

I suspect that 'socialized medicine' can be made to work well; maybe it does in Switzerland. But I don't trust the results of the people who want 'socialized medicine' in the US mostly just as I don't trust the people who just want socialism in the US. My guess is that too soon we will be paying too much (yes, we are now, also) or screaming about bad medicine like people do in the UK and Canada.

In a sense Medicare and Medicaid have an advantage because they are mostly just payment mechanisms placed on top of what is roughly, very roughly, a 'free-enterprise' system. But if just socialize the whole thing, then can end up with a bad version of the USPS.

I'm not against the Federal Government doing some things: In places what the Federal Government does works out great -- Hoover Dam, Bonneville Dam, TVA, Los Alamos, NSF, NIH, DARPA, funding of the top three dozen or so US research universities, the Interstate highway system, the FAA (the safety and engineering parts; some of the air traffic control parts), in the end most aspects of the USPS, the Agriculture Extension Service of the USDA, the FDA (pretty good on safety, a bit slow on efficacy), and more. For the VA, I don't know: There are complaints about the access and quality, but I know no details.

So, for Obamacare, I'm concerned that in the US 'socialized medicine' is just super tough to get right and that the Nancy, etc. efforts are not even 10% as serious as needed. Then, from the structure of the 'board' or 'panel' appointed by the president, I'm concerned that Obamacare will become a 'political football' that results in low quality health care at high prices.

"Political footbal"? For an example, that's my view of 'climate change' and 'clean energy': For fossil fuels, use 'climate change' as an excuse to tax them and throttle them. E.g., in his 2008 interview at the SF Chron., Obama explained his intention to raise carbon taxes enough to "bankrupt" our coal fired plants -- then 49% of our electric energy and, as I recall, ~23% of all our energy. I suspect he was just posturing, but it was dangerous. Then supposedly about $92 billion of the various 'stimulus' and TARP (I and II) funds went for 'clean energy' but turned out to be make-work jobs and campaign contribution kickbacks. Supposedly since then we've thrown another $45 billion at 'clean energy' -- to me, 99 44/100% about politics, e.g., campaign contribution kickbacks, and the rest water and not at all about energy or the even the climate (in my view, there's no very good evidence that the climate is at risk).

So, with US socialized medicine, I fear 'waste, fraud, abuse' from a political football.

E.g., now we've got NSA: Politics? Sure: No politician wants to get blamed for "being soft on terrorism". So, NSA suspends good judgment and goes overboard -- 'over reaches', e.g., data on calls of 120 million or so Verizon customers, maybe all the US e-mail traffic, maybe all the US phone voice data.

E.g.? Sure: Snowden was a GED, contract, bottom level employee in Hawaii but apparently had his fingers directly on huge volumes of data, all at the NSA supposedly just terrific at 'computer security'. Why? Poor oversight. Poor execution. From the White House, don't give a sh!t about the details and otherwise a political football.

I fear the same for a US national health care system. Yes, what we have could be better, but it could also be worse, and for having it worse Nancy is just the person to lead us there.

Maybe in an honest moment Nancy would have said, "We will just pass it. That's all we can do. Then we will leave the details up to the execution of the Executive branch, in some big office buildings somewhere within 100 miles of the Washington Monument, and pass more bills if really necessary. So, we will just get it started and then let others make it work well." But they don't have to make it work well -- they might just make a mess. I'm thinking, re-engineer and rebuild a Boeing 747 in flight, with people who just started learning about sheet metal.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#212
post #34
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More over, why so many perceived enemies who are US citizens? Why is the US government treating its own citizens as enemies of the state? As a non American, I take a perverse sort of comfort from that idea that it looks like the US government is as scared of its own people as it is foreigners. At least we foreigners and American citizens are in it together. Truth is, we are enemies of US government behavior, not the…

We've got an entrenched ruling class that's very distinct from the bulk of the county, who are remarkably inept, and who's interests are very much not those of the rest of the country's. This includes the Republican Party establishment, GOPe as some are starting to label it. For more details, this article is the best initial exposition I've found, "America’s Ruling Class — And the Perils of Revolution", " The only se…

And the author weights in on the current NSA controversy: http://www.libertylawsite.org/2013/06/23/the-ruling-class-co...

The author is an old school Cold Warrior, so I'm not dismissing his dismissal of e.g. traffic analysis and the general utility of the NSA's current methods out of hand, I'll have to read it carefully.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am sure you meant well but I found your write-up somewhat scattered and lacking a logical conclusion supported by prior points. This is easy to do if one is writing with passion. I've done it too. IANAL! But my 'point' is that there is a process of bringing cases, claims of unconstitutionality, to the SCOTUS and now that process has started. There will be the issue of a plaintiff having 'standing' to bring the ca…

"All she had to do was move to a state with 'community rating'", is that it?

In simple terms, yes. Or if she is really sick, just show up at the emergency room of any Hill-Burton hospital. The US healthcare system is a patchwork with problems, but broadly for people with serious, e.g., life threatening, medical problems, we don't turn them away -- first cut, broadly, with holes in the cloth.

But in the case in the Obama town hall, supposedly the woman could pay a reasonable amount for health insurance. In that case, just move to a community rated state, wait whatever waiting period if any, get medical insurance at the same rate as everyone else in that 'community rated' state, and be fine.

Could argue that in part Obamacare is a path to 'community rating' for all the states. But some of the states don't want community rating -- as far as I can tell, really only the richest states want that.

My view, in brief, is that Obamacare was not about healthcare. Instead, Obama wanted to play politics and, generally, just wanted a bigger Federal Government to have still more ability to play politics. Nancy wanted a big case of 'socialism' -- Nancy just dreams of socialism, in particular of Big Daddy Big Federal Government taking care of everyone and making everything 'all right', especially for insecure, single women with small children. Really Nancy wants to use the Federal Government to establish a lot of 'social and cultural values' that would conflict with 'limited government'. Nancy wants a big, security blanket, socialistic government providing a basic level of material support and quality of life for everyone.

I could agree with Nancy except I fear that her hands on the economy would make the economy so sick it couldn't provide what she wants, that is, she will choke the goose that lays the golden eggs. If Nancy could actually do a good job, then we have something to discuss; I just fear that Nancy will make a mess, a disaster. To me it's first mostly a matter of simple competence at execution and not 'political principles' or 'social philosophy'. I just think her boat will leak and not float.

And, yes, even if in simple terms the execution is good, there will be the issue of motivation -- if the 'floor' provided by the Federal Government is high enough, then a lot of people will try less hard and the goose will lay fewer golden eggs.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We had to pass it to find out what's in it Er, is it so amazing that you have execute code and see the results of the running process before you can really find the bugs?

No, the right analogy is to have someone write mission critical aircraft embedded code; don't have anyone review it; run no simulations; hell, don't even debug it; load it on a 787 and say "we have to fly it to see if it works". That's what our representatives did. Ready for takeoff?

Nice!

And then we will debug the code while flying at 0.75 Mach at 35,000 feet!

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this is very, very dangerous. I agree. But, we should not be surprised since Jefferson told us "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance." I believe, certainly I hope, that the SCOTUS will see the danger with crystal clarity. E.g., one of the main concerns of the founding fathers and objectives of the Constitution was to limit the powers of the central government and just because of the "dangers". I'd bet…

>>I agree. But, we should not be surprised since Jefferson told us "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance." What if SCOTUS decides to interpret this as "the price of liberty is eternal surveillance"?

Then we are in deep trouble. We'd have lots of demonstrations in the streets, put new people into Congress, and eventually hold a Constitutional Convention to patch up the Constitution. It would take a long time and might be bloody and might even ruin the US.

But I believe that the founding fathers saw this possibility and designed the system to keep this from happening. In particular, the SCOTUS is darned serious; they understand with crystal clarity the threats to the Constitution and the US. Their main job is to defend the Constitution. To this end, they are plenty bright, are awash in power and independence, have plenty of resources, and do have the respect of the citizens. So, I believe that the SCOTUS will do the right things.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's their job and why we try to put smart people there.

Kelo vs. New London. The job of lawyers is to find loopholes. Since the entire scotus is composed of lawyers we more strongly risk having a court that chooses to sympathize and reward cleverness in finding loopholes that are technically correct according to the letter of the law. For example, myriad genetics.

I just looked up Kelo and Myriad: I don't know either case well, but I'd heard of both of them.

Those cases involve really tricky stuff in the sense that there's nothing really clear in the Constitution on how to resolve the cases. So, the SCOTUS had to 'interpret'. For what they did in those two cases, I see no big threat to the US. For Kelo, my sympathies for the poor guy who owned the property that got taken away from him. For Myriad, I thought that that was a really nice step toward something that makes sense in patent law. So, if invent some DNA, then maybe can patent it. But if just read some DNA from a drop of my blood, then can't patent it. For cDNA, I saved time by not checking out the details -- maybe after I watch some more Eric Lander videos!

But for the NSA getting the phone call metadata on all 120 million or so Verizon customers, apparently once a day, for years, I see mud tracked over the Fourth Amendment with no real doubt. And I see a threat to the US, e.g., another Nixon "taking the gloves off", using that data to go after his "enemies", and building a tyrannical dictatorship.

So, I can see it now: "Dear NSA: I'm a good, long time Verizon customer. I met this girl on-line, and we met at a bar and then went back to her place. I saw her for six months, and then she told me that I'd gotten her pregnant. I don't believe it. So, what I need are her phone records so that I can track down who she was talking to on her phone, who she was sleeping with, and who got her pregnant. So, from you, I need the phone records. Help!"

So, between the two cases you cited and the present NSA-Verizon issue, I see a difference in kind. There are some bright people on the SCOTUS, even if they are lawyers. Maybe they are bright enough to go above some narrow, loop-hole infested view of the law and think effectively about protecting the Constitution and the US essentially as the founding fathers did and intended. I hope so.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#217
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress already has healthcare (tremendously good healthcare), so obviously they wouldn't want to replace it with Obamacare, as that is only what is good enough for everyone. Instead they will simply say the existing Congressional pension/healthcare system meets PPACA requirements and call it a day. That's the same thing they did for military Tricare health care (which is as socialist as they come, by the way :P). I…

Yes, there are problems now, e.g., "how many people have nothing else to rely on.". But, really, the existing system has faced such problems for a long time and put in place a complicated, disorganized, collection of pieces, patchwork, to respond to it. E.g., there is the Hill-Burton hospital act where to build a hospital can get Federal money but then can't turn away patients who can't pay. So, do 'cost shifting' an…

Well I think I agree in principle that the implementation of healthcare should be left to a free market-esque system, with oversight and resourcing provided by the government.

It could even be much like those "basic income" schemes being floated around here; the government pays out up to a certain cap to cover basic preventative and "major life function" care. If people want fancier doctors that's fine, but they have to pony up the excess themselves.

I think the best examples of government interaction with the business sector have come when the government says this is what needs to happen without enforcing how it has to be done, and then letting entrepreneurial types figure out how to do it best. I see no reason why healthcare has to be fully nationalized, or why ObamaCare can't be the first step toward a system like that.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judicial review is not an enumerated power, but "created out of whole cloth" is misleading. It had precedent in Common Law, and purportedly it was discussed as a possibility before actually being used in Marbury (at which point the country had only been around ~12 years).

how could it have precedent in common law? The UK has no such thing as a written constitution to be interpreted in quite the same fashion.

I'd read something about it, but am not finding my sources, so I'll drop the claim for now.

However, it does seem to follow inherently from:

    1) Precedent (as policy, not any particular instance)
    2) The ability to determine/resolve contradictions between laws
    3) The supremacy clause of the Constitution
If the court finds (per 2) that a given law is in contradiction with the Constitution, they must resolve the issue by deferring to the Constitution (per 3). Later courts must find the same (per 1). Therefor, you have a law which is effectively overturned by being deemed in conflict with the Constitution.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! Some of that may also be in the last half of 'The Art of Loving', but what you wrote is new to me. You are right -- just from what you quoted, he had something perceptive and important to say. And on India, he's right: I refuse to pay attention to India, and for essentially just the reason he said.

I think many, if not all of his ideas show up in all of his writings here and there, he is consistent that way :) But what still positively surprised my about "The Sane Society" was the last third, where he goes into (then) recent history, and quotes a lot of people I never heard of about the up and coming age of industrialization. Very good stuff, and all news to me. At the risk of overdoing it (even more), one last…

Terrific. You/he did it again. I wouldn't have thought of more than 10% of that, even on a good day.

There are some connections with some of the content in 'The Art of Loving', especially his -- rough quote:

"The fundamental problem in life is getting security in face of the anxiety from the realization that we are vulnerable to the hostile forces of nature and society. Human intelligence enables this realization. For responding to this anxiety, only four approaches have been tried, (1) love of god, (2) love of spouse, (3) membership in groups (get praise, acceptance, approval, feeling of belonging, coalition, support), and (4) 'orgiastic' behavior (sex and drugs) to suppress the feelings of anxiety."

So, the "idolatry" can be seen as another response to the anxiety, that is, a false approach to (1)-(3).

Fromm had another one, that can regard as a 'secret scorecard'! He explained that in a good case of love, the couple gives to each other knowledge, caring, respect, and responsiveness. So, in "knowledge" they keep each other informed on their thoughts, feelings, concerns, desires, etc. In "caring", they actually, actively care about each other. In "respect" they respect the other person, e.g., don't regard them with contempt or to be manipulated or exploited. For "responsiveness", they 'respond' to each other, e.g., don't do what was long in the Sunday newspaper cartoons of the wife talking to the husband over the breakfast table and the husband behind a newspaper repeating "Yes, Dear. Of course, Dear. That's right, Dear. That's nice, Dear. Yes, Dear.".

Then take these four 'attributes' and evaluate them for couples you know. If the couple gets a bad grade on all four, try to short the stock of their marriage, if it is possible to do that! Or be very cautious about marrying one of their children!

That little scorecard can give some surprising results: Can discover that some couples are going along for decades with what externally to the community looks like a good marriage but according to the scorecard really would like to knife each other in the back! Or, people can put on some really big acts.

There's more, from Fromm, and still more if combine Fromm with some other good sources (of which I know only a few).

Here's an exercise: Watch 'Roman Holiday'. There the reporter Bradley (Gregory Peck) and Princess Anna (Audrey Hepburn) were from the beginning basically lying to each other about whom they were but slowly mutually but silently worked past the lies. Then evaluate the scorecard: They did great. On each of the four, they started off okay and then grew to a grade of A or A+. Then they were in love. Otherwise they showed it by only quite subtle means, but it was convincing and enough. The writer (Trumbo), director (Wyler), and the actors did fantastic jobs. Fromm's scorecard wins again!

People really in love will likely be doing well on Fromm's scorecard whether they have heard of the four items or not. If they are not in love, are pretending to the public to be in love, and have not heard of the four items, then there is a really good chance that their act is not working and they are showing that they are not in love by getting bad grades on the scorecard.

I doubt that Trumbo or Wyler had read Fromm, but they knew enough about love to give a really good presentation of it including on Fromm's scorecard.

Note: I call Fromm's four attributes a 'scorecard'; I doubt that Fromm ever did!

That Fromm's little four item scorecard can look like X-ray vision through the public 'presentation' of couples trying to pretend in public to have a good marriage is to me amazing and astoundingly valuable. Some of the best information about anything I ever got.

One more exercise: The first item on Fromm's scorecard is giving knowledge. Well, that is a form of 'intimacy'. If you are in a romantic relationship without intimacy, then you are in deep trouble! On the other hand, if meet a girl and soon she is telling you lots of things from between her ears, then that's intimacy and inviting a romantic relationship. I've been in 'romantic' relationships where the girl was much more open about what was between her legs than between her ears. Or in 'Roman Holiday', they started between their ears and slowly worked down to, say, a nice hug and a kiss. In real life, it can be much more common to start below the waist and maybe move up, maybe never get above the shoulders, and only rarely get between the ears.

Or, in middle school it can appear that a lot of the mothers told their daughters to stay away from boys, not to talk to them: "Don't tell them anything. If they ask 'why', just say 'because'. Say it over and over until they feel insulted and give up." So, such mothers know that this way they can throttle a path toward intimacy for their middle school daughters.

Fromm's amazing.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a stark difference, though, between a law which merely (allegedly) distorts economic behavior, and one that affects privacy. The former is only vaguely addressed in the Constitution, in the form fo the 9th and 10th Amendments, and even then the Commerce Clause gives the federal government much power in this arena. The latter, however, is very specifically addressed in the 4th Amendment, and there is no catch…

True enough. However, something like Obamacare has the potential to cause both massive economic destruction and massive violations of privacy. I mean, the government --the IRS!!!-- will have access to your health data. Sit down and think about what they could learn about anyone by connecting the dots between your Internet, phones and health databases as well as those of the people connected to you. I don't see much g…

You see clearly, like seeing Godzilla rising from the East River and about to come ashore. And you are 100% correct.

"All we need is another man like Richard Nixon again" -- sung to the theme song of 'All in the Family'. So, Tricky Dicky had an "enemies list" and wanted to use IRS data. If he had had IRS data, NSA data, CIA data, FBI data, and Obamacare data, we might not have a country now.

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