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Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

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Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#61

Post by smsm42 »

venomsnake wrote: post #28

This was common in Eastern Europe and USSR during the purges - they were "Enemies with a Party Ticket". It is disturbing how easily this rhetoric comes.

This is because the goal of a out-of-control government is always the same - to keep and extend its reach. No matter which slogan they write on their banners, once they feel they are no longer under the strictest and most vigilant control of those they purport to represent - they will behave the same. Once the relationship between citizens and the government changes from owner/hired manager to subject/ruler, there's no other way it can go. Unfortunately, current US government is approaching the citizens as subjects and not owners way too often.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#62

Post by Sven7 »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #57
Sven7 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

By stopping to commit them. Oh wait, that's not what you meant, you meant terror attacks by Americans or foreigners against American officials, not terror attacks against foreigners by American officials, or terror attacks by american officals against American civilians, right? My bad. For that I would hop into a time machine, not train Al-Quaeda, not mess with Iran, and let Saudi Arabia find someone else to buy thei…

Solutions please. Rhetoric is easy.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#63

Post by smsm42 »

Sven7 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I could understand why the vast majority of the government is in favor of this, or why the mainstream media is with the government, too, however disappointing that may be, what is most saddening is that there are a lot of people out there who agree with them, too, maybe not the majority but even 40% would be a very scary number. Even in the most ruthless dictatorships there were a lot of normal people who suppo…

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

I feel this comment is missing "think of the children". Practically any government excess can be justified once it is claimed it is to combat terrorism or protect children.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#64

Post by Sven7 »

benjohnson wrote: post #59
Sven7 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

Not to sound rude, but I'd rather lose 10,000 American souls then lose the freedoms that make America.

That isn't a solution. Nobody is going to get elected on that platform.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#65

Post by tommi »

Sven7 wrote: post #62
PavlovsCat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By stopping to commit them. Oh wait, that's not what you meant, you meant terror attacks by Americans or foreigners against American officials, not terror attacks against foreigners by American officials, or terror attacks by american officals against American civilians, right? My bad. For that I would hop into a time machine, not train Al-Quaeda, not mess with Iran, and let Saudi Arabia find someone else to buy thei…

Solutions please. Rhetoric is easy.

The solution is to act nicer now and in the future. The solution is not act in more terrifying ways, both home and abroad. Don't torture and murder people.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#66

Post by Sven7 »

smsm42 wrote: post #63
Sven7 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

I feel this comment is missing "think of the children". Practically any government excess can be justified once it is claimed it is to combat terrorism or protect children.

And this comment doesn't answer my question.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#67

Post by lukeschlather »

Sven7 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I could understand why the vast majority of the government is in favor of this, or why the mainstream media is with the government, too, however disappointing that may be, what is most saddening is that there are a lot of people out there who agree with them, too, maybe not the majority but even 40% would be a very scary number. Even in the most ruthless dictatorships there were a lot of normal people who suppo…

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

I don't. We could have a 9/11 type event every year, and it would still not be as big a problem as automobile accidents. If we're going to live in a police state, I would hope the police state would focus on major causes of preventable death, like disease and automobile accidents. Terrorism in the United States is not a serious problem worthy of this level of concern.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#68

Post by losvedir »

Sven7 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I could understand why the vast majority of the government is in favor of this, or why the mainstream media is with the government, too, however disappointing that may be, what is most saddening is that there are a lot of people out there who agree with them, too, maybe not the majority but even 40% would be a very scary number. Even in the most ruthless dictatorships there were a lot of normal people who suppo…

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

You do what you can while respecting freedom and privacy, and accept that every once in a while terror attacks may happen.

You're giving us a false choice.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#69

Post by hga »

benjohnson wrote: post #59
Sven7 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

Not to sound rude, but I'd rather lose 10,000 American souls then lose the freedoms that make America.

That's unrealistic, because we simply won't put up with mass casualty events. The key is to focus the response productively and avoid mission creep. It's the potential if not inevitability of the latter that makes the current NSA et. al. stuff so bad.

This is different, this is a president who's cut from the same cloth as Nixon, in everything from being the first one since him to refer to his political enemies as "enemies" to this new model of the Plumbers ... except the establishment and media hated Nixon with a passion starting in the late '40s, 1950 at the latest. Obama hasn't been subjected to that level of feedback, e.g. note how many on the Left are happy with or at least excusing his Administration's suppression of the TEA Party et. al., which is one of the things that casts the NSA's extreme data gathering---not "collection", you must understand...---in sharp relief.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#70

Post by adamors »

venomsnake wrote: post #28

This was common in Eastern Europe and USSR during the purges - they were "Enemies with a Party Ticket". It is disturbing how easily this rhetoric comes.

Yes, the situation and especially the rhetoric is eerily similar to what my parents and grandparents went through in the Communist Bloc.
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