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Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

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Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#51

Post by mpyne »

Sven7 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I could understand why the vast majority of the government is in favor of this, or why the mainstream media is with the government, too, however disappointing that may be, what is most saddening is that there are a lot of people out there who agree with them, too, maybe not the majority but even 40% would be a very scary number. Even in the most ruthless dictatorships there were a lot of normal people who suppo…

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

The normal recommendation is "good old-fashioned police work", as if strong police states are known to be beacons of freedom.

Some simply recommend to just suck it up as the price of doing business, but that goes against everything America has typically done with regard to terrorism, all the way back to the Barbary Pirates: "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute!"

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#52

Post by PavlovsCat »

cglee wrote: post #15
betterunix wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is also an exceedingly rare crime. It would have been acceptable to let the robbers get away, and then catch them later (if at all). Our cities are not war zones (thankfully). To put it another way, this is no different from saying that the police should be armed with anti-aircraft missiles, because of the 9/11 attacks.

It's rare because police can handle it now. If you let head to toe kevlar robbers get away all the time, well, you'll have a lot of those types of attacks.

I wonder if with a slightly less thuggish police there would also be less killings of innocent people? Who knows what the bottom line would be.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#53

Post by CamperBob2 »

Sven7 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I could understand why the vast majority of the government is in favor of this, or why the mainstream media is with the government, too, however disappointing that may be, what is most saddening is that there are a lot of people out there who agree with them, too, maybe not the majority but even 40% would be a very scary number. Even in the most ruthless dictatorships there were a lot of normal people who suppo…

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

The guy who sold me this tiger-repelling rock said it also worked on terrorists. So far, it looks like he was right.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#54

Post by philwelch »

hga wrote: post #35
crististm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I see now as US is a very different place from the one I imagined only 20 years ago. In this very short time span it went from THE place to go to in terms of Freedom to "are you nuts? - it's communist Russia in disguise". I've heard there are "no-fly" secret lists which you can't challenge because, you know, they are secret. That can't be true, right? grin

You can challenge them, e.g. ask the TSA or whomever to reconsider, but you won't be told why your name was put on it ... which is not at all insane if you think about it. The existence of the list(s), and their many false positives, e.g. the late Senator Teddy Kennedy, is no secret at all, just their contents and methods.

> The existence of the list(s), and their many false positives, e.g. the late Senator Teddy Kennedy

Are you sure they weren't just worried he'd get drunk and fly the plane into the water?

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#55

Post by dpeck »

crististm wrote: post #23

That raises the question: who is US after all? Is it the officials or is it the people?

Ive tried to stop myself from forming opinions of the residents of other countries by the actions and rhetoric of their political leaders, whether elected or otherwise. I would hope others do the same and don't believe the actions of DC to be anything more than an exaggerated and often inaccurate caricature of the American people.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#56

Post by mpyne »

hga wrote: post #43
spitx wrote: post #17

This is Bill Clinton speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative - whose spouse, from all accounts, will most likely be running for the office of President in 2016 - on NSA Security Leaks and Snowden. "They (NSA) have prevented a very large number of harmful actions" "I don't see any alternative to trying to track all these groups around the world who are trying to wreck the ordinary operations of life in America and p…

Clinton is the same guy who tried to press us into using key-escrowed encryption systems like the Clipper Chip ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip ) and his IRS was notorious for auditing anyone who committed personal, in your face lèse-majesté . You mention his wife, she of the "vast, right wing conspiracy"; these are not people who've ever been good on these subjects. For that matter, not that it wasn't lar…

You may not like Clinton but tons of people do. Ignore that at the peril of the political goals you try to advance.

But either way, the point is that Clinton's opinion is going to be a decent bellwether as to the general opinion. I think spitx is right on target on how to advance change (or at least, what to avoid).

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#57

Post by PavlovsCat »

Sven7 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I could understand why the vast majority of the government is in favor of this, or why the mainstream media is with the government, too, however disappointing that may be, what is most saddening is that there are a lot of people out there who agree with them, too, maybe not the majority but even 40% would be a very scary number. Even in the most ruthless dictatorships there were a lot of normal people who suppo…

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

By stopping to commit them. Oh wait, that's not what you meant, you meant terror attacks by Americans or foreigners against American officials, not terror attacks against foreigners by American officials, or terror attacks by american officals against American civilians, right? My bad.

For that I would hop into a time machine, not train Al-Quaeda, not mess with Iran, and let Saudi Arabia find someone else to buy their oil with which they sponsor what they sponsor.

Some might claim then I would have been utterly usurped by the USSR, and without a time machine, who knows. There's really only one way to find out what acting like a decent person, and in extension like a decent nation, would have lead to. Or what it might lead to starting from today.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#58

Post by Sven7 »

mpyne wrote: post #51
Sven7 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

The normal recommendation is "good old-fashioned police work", as if strong police states are known to be beacons of freedom. Some simply recommend to just suck it up as the price of doing business, but that goes against everything America has typically done with regard to terrorism, all the way back to the Barbary Pirates: "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute!"

That's why the surveillance state will exist. Cause the answers are non-obvious.

What I find most annoying about the comments on hacker news over the last couple weeks, is the amount of people crying about the problems or potential problems and hardly anyone talking solutions. The lack of solutions itself is a sign that no one has anything better to offer than what the NSA is currently upto.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#59

Post by benjohnson »

Sven7 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I could understand why the vast majority of the government is in favor of this, or why the mainstream media is with the government, too, however disappointing that may be, what is most saddening is that there are a lot of people out there who agree with them, too, maybe not the majority but even 40% would be a very scary number. Even in the most ruthless dictatorships there were a lot of normal people who suppo…

And how do you plan to stop the next terror attack?

Not to sound rude, but I'd rather lose 10,000 American souls then lose the freedoms that make America.

Re: Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

#60

Post by hga »

crististm wrote: post #40
hga wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can challenge them, e.g. ask the TSA or whomever to reconsider, but you won't be told why your name was put on it ... which is not at all insane if you think about it. The existence of the list(s), and their many false positives, e.g. the late Senator Teddy Kennedy, is no secret at all, just their contents and methods.

You see the problem here? These are tactics of a police state. In a free world there is no secret police doing secret stuff that I have to jump through hoops to challenge. The moment people get used to this shit - they have won.

We're Americans, I assure you however much we're "used to it" there's a smoldering anger that is getting hotter and hotter as this goes on. The TEA Party et. al. are part of that, which is of course why it was imperative to suppress them.

As the organs of the state continue in this ... well, it isn't going to end well.

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