Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong • Hacker News Board

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#81

Post by llamataboot » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 4:40 PM UTC

Nrsolis wrote: post #22

jnbiche wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no legal niceties here. This is about raw military power (Russia's) and spheres of influence (again, Russia's).

What's really sad is that this guy is going to learn really fast that he's now in a sphere where the rules simply don't apply. He's put himself in play and he's going to learn very quickly that he has few friends where a nation considers the information in his brain essential to their national security. http://www.amazon.com/The-Flight-Falcon-Manhunt-Americas/dp/... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falcon_and_the_Sno…

But the information isn't just in his head. And revenge-killing might make more information available through some dead man's switch, especially now that wikileaks is involved

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#82

Post by justsee » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 4:44 PM UTC

cjfont wrote: post #53

justsee wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chávez himself read my findings on potential elections theft – to his nation on his TV show – and then he moved swiftly, establishing an election system that Jimmy Carter, who has headed vote observer teams in 92 nations, called, 'an election process that is the best in the world'. Here's how it works: every Venezuelan voter gets TWO ballots. One is electronic, the second is a paper print-out of the touch-screen bal…

The way I understand it, the ballot by itself does not unique ly identify the voter -- however in addition to the physical and electronic ballots, an electoral notebook records the vote and links the ballot to the voter's identity. As part of their "audit", The CNE refused to include the information from the notebooks, and thus irregularities such as an individual voting multiple times as a deceased person would not…

> thus irregularities such as an individual voting multiple times as a deceased person would not be able to be detected.

That doesn't seem correct. Voters need to provide identification and their fingerprints (!) as part of the voting process, so the risk of these irregularities would be much lower than, for instance, the United States.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#83

Post by gst » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 4:49 PM UTC

netrus wrote: post #50

darxius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be illegal to house Snowden for, let's say 24 hours, if you don't live in the US?

Why would it be? It's not my business to report anything to anyone, as long as he does not brag about criminal activities all too open ...

> It's not my business to report anything to anyone

Actually it is. If you're in a Common Law legislation there's a good chance the you could be charged with conspiracy. And if you're in a Civil Law legislation there's a good chance that your country requires you to report ongoing crimes once you gain knowledge about them (of course there's the question if a court will treat Snowden's actions as completed or as ongoing crimes).

Not arguing about the moral thing to do here, just about the legal point of view.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#84

Post by vidarh » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 4:50 PM UTC

gsnedders wrote: post #72

arcadeparade wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually he said he would go to Sweden if they promised not to extradite him to the USA and they refused.

…because the Swedish government can make no such promise, as extradition is a matter for the judiciary, and the judiciary cannot hear the case until they have an extradition request in hand. Having a strong separation between government and judiciary is good . He never had any guarantee from the UK that he would not be extradited, and yet was happy to spend time there.

> …because the Swedish government can make no such promise, as extradition is a matter for the judiciary

This is a half truth. The Swedish government can overrule the judiciary to prevent extradition, and have on multiple occasions.

They government have chosen not to offer such guarantees.

Though frankly, a bigger concern is the prosecutors insistence on not questioning him in the UK and her claim she somehow can't, despite evidence to the contrary (Swedish police regularly questions suspects outside of Sweden)

> He never had any guarantee from the UK that he would not be extradited, and yet was happy to spend time there.

He was happy to spend time here because unlike Sweden, the UK has not been quite as willing to illegally hand people over to the CIA for rendition flights (Sweden has admitted to multiple instances), and has a legal system that at least has a little bit of a spine in extradition cases on occasion.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#85

Post by DanBC » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 4:50 PM UTC

gst wrote: post #83

netrus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be? It's not my business to report anything to anyone, as long as he does not brag about criminal activities all too open ...

> It's not my business to report anything to anyone Actually it is. If you're in a Common Law legislation there's a good chance the you could be charged with conspiracy. And if you're in a Civil Law legislation there's a good chance that your country requires you to report ongoing crimes once you gain knowledge about them (of course there's the question if a court will treat Snowden's actions as completed or as ongoi…

> if you're in a Civil Law legislation there's a good chance that your country requires you to report ongoing crimes once you gain knowledge about them

Does anyone have any citations for this please? (I'm especially interested in English law, but any other country is fine too.)

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#86

Post by iandanforth » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 4:52 PM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #55

drawkbox wrote: post #49

Playing devil's advocate here, and watched a bunch of spy movies... What if Snowden is still a CIA agent (he was a CIA agent for years before NSA) and this is actually a snowjob/whitewash by the government to deflect attention or essentially control the message about news they knew would be released (diffusing that/controlling that message) and black-ops about China, Russia, Cuba + Venezuela how they treat/process po…

Ill go a step further. Snowmen is really a bellwether event created by this administration to either provide a redemption story for the Obama administration, should the public object too strongly-- or to test if surveillance can be taken much farther (if the public remains apathetic)

I hope at least the movie version ends this way, it would be a great twist. The leaker walks into the oval office and shakes the hand of the president, who smiles, and fade to black.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#87

Post by kriro » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 5:00 PM UTC

spdy wrote: post #10

How does diplomatic immunity work if you are in the entourage of an diplomat?

If Snowden can fit into a suitcase he should be fine ;)

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#88

Post by vidarh » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 5:01 PM UTC

jpatokal wrote: post #16

octo_t wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venezuela is one of the most democratic countries in the world? All of their last elections have been externally ratified as being fair: http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/hugo-chavez-030513.html http://www.cartercenter.org/countries/venezuela-peace-electi...

Are you serious? Chavez spent his entire period in office warping the machinery of the state in his favor, and his successor is refusing to investigate some pretty serious allegations of fraud for the last one. http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21579458-real-questio...

I have serious concerns about Chavez policies, but accepting US media portrayals of Venezuela is about as naive as taking Chinese state owned media at face value: Their reports could be accurate, but you won't know without comparing it with alternatives.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#89

Post by pstuart » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 5:02 PM UTC

Tangaroa wrote: post #73

enraged_camel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to add, as it wasn't a discussion. You put forward the assertion that the entire thing is a hoax and that Snowden is a Chinese spy. You provided absolutely zero evidence. And you expect me to "add to the discussion?" What a joke.

I'm still waiting on Snowden to provide evidence of the NSA breaking the 4th amendment and illegally spying on the American people. For all the panic and the republication of old stories about the NSA, it is Snowden who has provided absolutely zero evidence. What we do have is that Snowden copied a large cache of thousands of sensitive documents and gave them to who-knows-who. Suddenly countries that position themsel…

Do you get paid to shill for the establishment or is it just for the lulz? Maybe you get a Junior G-Man badge and a code name?

The NSA has every incentive to spy on everyone -- that's their job. The only "oversite" they have is by a toothless committees that will rubber-stamp anything they do.

Do you really trust the government to always do the right thing? Even with historical evidence of continual abuses of such power?

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#90

Post by devcpp » Sun, Jun 23, 2013, 5:03 PM UTC

Tangaroa wrote: post #73

enraged_camel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to add, as it wasn't a discussion. You put forward the assertion that the entire thing is a hoax and that Snowden is a Chinese spy. You provided absolutely zero evidence. And you expect me to "add to the discussion?" What a joke.

I'm still waiting on Snowden to provide evidence of the NSA breaking the 4th amendment and illegally spying on the American people. For all the panic and the republication of old stories about the NSA, it is Snowden who has provided absolutely zero evidence. What we do have is that Snowden copied a large cache of thousands of sensitive documents and gave them to who-knows-who. Suddenly countries that position themsel…

Seriously? So you're okay with the NSA spying -legally or not- on everyone, when the highest ranking people have denied this for years? Do you really think spying on Google, Yahoo!, and Microsoft users as a whole constitute probable cause for a search?

I don't care about the consequences. If the US had apologized for this terrible mess and all the lies to its own people, Snowden wouldn't have had to do any of what had followed. Instead, it still refuses to corroborate his claims, making it seems likely that there's something incriminating here.

If this doesn't seem fishy on the US side, and if you think anyone wouldn't have thought about blowing the whistle on all these lies by our leaders, you're seriously delusional. Or a troll.