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Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

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Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#71

Post by danenania »

Tangaroa wrote: post #47
synctext wrote: post #4

Why is this trip of Snowden made into a media event? The Aeroflot flight number was public! Is this to counter a secret rendition attempt? Did we wake-up in a world with 007 stuff happening to real computer nerds, not just high-paid actors?

The entire Snowden hoax is a media event, a PR campaign to cover up the fact that he spied on the US for foreign powers. It's the most effective case of spin and damage control that I've ever seen.

Spying on the fact that the US spies on everybody?

Do you think people who keep their mouths shut as they and their coworkers do things like torture other human beings and build totalitarian surveillance infrastructure are good people?

Sorry to invoke Godwin, but the Nazis would have loved folks like that.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#72

Post by gsnedders »

arcadeparade wrote: post #62
Kiro wrote: post #48

"What is being done to Mr Snowden and to Mr Julian Assange - for making or facilitating disclosures in the public interest - is an assault against the people." What exactly is being "done" to Julian Assange? The only reason he's stuck in the embassy is because of rape accusations.

Actually he said he would go to Sweden if they promised not to extradite him to the USA and they refused.

…because the Swedish government can make no such promise, as extradition is a matter for the judiciary, and the judiciary cannot hear the case until they have an extradition request in hand. Having a strong separation between government and judiciary is good.

He never had any guarantee from the UK that he would not be extradited, and yet was happy to spend time there.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#73

Post by Tangaroa »

enraged_camel wrote: post #64
Tangaroa wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for adding nothing to the discussion.

There is nothing to add, as it wasn't a discussion. You put forward the assertion that the entire thing is a hoax and that Snowden is a Chinese spy. You provided absolutely zero evidence. And you expect me to "add to the discussion?" What a joke.

I'm still waiting on Snowden to provide evidence of the NSA breaking the 4th amendment and illegally spying on the American people. For all the panic and the republication of old stories about the NSA, it is Snowden who has provided absolutely zero evidence.

What we do have is that Snowden copied a large cache of thousands of sensitive documents and gave them to who-knows-who. Suddenly countries that position themselves as enemies of the US are very happy to help him out, and he is happy to accept their assistance. In between, there was a public relations campaign to call him a "whistleblower" even though that is not what he did. The documents provided as supporting evidence do not say what Glenn Greenwald's reports say they do, while the journalists who have reported on these programs before are all facepalming at how wrong Greenwald's reporting has been.

So yes, it looks like the entire thing is a hoax and Snowden is a spy. YHBT by Glenn Greenwald and whoever else was involved. YHL. HAND.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#74

Post by Tangaroa »

danenania wrote: post #71
Tangaroa wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire Snowden hoax is a media event, a PR campaign to cover up the fact that he spied on the US for foreign powers. It's the most effective case of spin and damage control that I've ever seen.

Spying on the fact that the US spies on everybody? Do you think people who keep their mouths shut as they and their coworkers do things like torture other human beings and build totalitarian surveillance infrastructure are good people? Sorry to invoke Godwin, but the Nazis would have loved folks like that.

Please show me where Snowden has exposed his coworkers torturing other human beings.

Please show me where Snowden has exposed his coworkers building a totalitarian surveillance infrastructure. Justify describing it as 'totalitarian'.

And for calling me a Nazi, go fuck yourself.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#75

Post by danenania »

Tangaroa wrote: post #74
danenania wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spying on the fact that the US spies on everybody? Do you think people who keep their mouths shut as they and their coworkers do things like torture other human beings and build totalitarian surveillance infrastructure are good people? Sorry to invoke Godwin, but the Nazis would have loved folks like that.

Please show me where Snowden has exposed his coworkers torturing other human beings. Please show me where Snowden has exposed his coworkers building a totalitarian surveillance infrastructure. Justify describing it as 'totalitarian'. And for calling me a Nazi, go fuck yourself.

If a global system to capture the digital communications of everyone on the planet does not merit the term 'totalitarian', then that term has lost all meaning.

I didn't call you a Nazi. I said the Nazis would have loved people who were ok with that kind of thing. Isn't that fairly obvious?

Do you think they would have preferred a guy like Snowden?

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#76

Post by d23 »

pmichaud wrote: post #67
synctext wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snowden is really a bellwether event. Why would Obama sanction deeply-embarrassing revelations and expose the staggering depth of warrantless spying?

Maybe Obama is deeply opposed to the whole thing himself, but it's so entrenched he couldn't really do anything about it. Think of how he gets blocked routinely in the public view and imagine what cut throat stuff must be going on behind the scenes. So maybe this is a way to do an end run around whoever is keeping these shenanigans in place. This is almost certainly not the case, but that's the answer that came to mi…

At this point, it's the only way I would still be able to justify not being disappointed in him. My hope is that given the obstructionism he's experienced over the last four years, he's trying a bit of jujitsu to use his political enemies' weight against themselves. His base complained that he wasn't doing anything on DADT (i.e. an executive order, which could be overturned under a republican administration) and he had to basically keep quiet until he got the permanent repeal behind the scenes.

That being said, I'd be surprised if that were the case here. But a man can hope.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#78

Post by psutor »

pmichaud wrote: post #67
synctext wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snowden is really a bellwether event. Why would Obama sanction deeply-embarrassing revelations and expose the staggering depth of warrantless spying?

Maybe Obama is deeply opposed to the whole thing himself, but it's so entrenched he couldn't really do anything about it. Think of how he gets blocked routinely in the public view and imagine what cut throat stuff must be going on behind the scenes. So maybe this is a way to do an end run around whoever is keeping these shenanigans in place. This is almost certainly not the case, but that's the answer that came to mi…

This thought crossed my mind as well after I spent some time thinking how a president could still get things done with how little power they actually have vs. entrenched entities.

I still think it is extraordinarily unlikely though.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#79

Post by at-fates-hands »

drawkbox wrote: post #49

Playing devil's advocate here, and watched a bunch of spy movies... What if Snowden is still a CIA agent (he was a CIA agent for years before NSA) and this is actually a snowjob/whitewash by the government to deflect attention or essentially control the message about news they knew would be released (diffusing that/controlling that message) and black-ops about China, Russia, Cuba + Venezuela how they treat/process po…

Agreed. Ever since this thing broke, I've been pretty skeptical about how this is unfolding.

One thing about spy movies and the CIA, they're truly masters of misdirection. While you're watching the world fawn over Snowden and what he's done and the fallout, you can bet these people are still 4 steps ahead, planning and plotting their next move.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#80

Post by X-Istence »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #77

"being escorted by diplomats and legal advisors from WikiLeaks." Since when did WikiLEaks have diplomats on its payroll??

They don't have to be on the pay roll to still believe that Wikileaks is providing a greater resource to the world...
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