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Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

interfax.com

81–90 of 139 posts

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#81
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US looks like a bully.

It is a massive fucking bully.

If you don't want to be "bullied" with extradition requests and espionage charges, then you should avoid working in intelligence, then selling or giving away information that required clearance to get.

Incidentally, this rule also holds if you plan to work in Russian or Chinese intelligence agencies.

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#82
post #34

So you fight for a better world seeking protection from the scum of the world? Damn contradiction.

History is full of examples of strange bedfellows as a result of mutual enemies. It is often the only realistic alternative when you face a massive strong opponent.

There's no contradiction in it unless you start providing support to said scum.

This also presumes that we agree with your assessment of who is the bigger scum. The Cuban government is easily more repressive to its own people, but the US government murders far more innocents, for example.

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the current government is extremely fragile having against them both pro and anti Chavez groups

The problem is not whether the government is fragile or not, is whether Russia will stand for Venezuela at the end. I'm Venezuelan and I can be sure that the government has enough problems right now to be in War or anything like that with USA. Russia would be a better place to stay.

You seriously think the US will start a WAR with Venezuela? On account of Snowden?

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#84

One question that I saw floating around on Twitter is how could the US Gov charge Snowden on espionage? Espionage doesn't apply or does it? Let's say you and I share some secret. When I pass that information you trusted in me to a third party (who is interested in acquiring that information) secretly for some favor (cash/kind) only then it becomes a case of espionage no? When I share facts that were meant to be confi…

So if I want US military secrets, all I have to do is hire someone to infiltrate, dig them up and then transmit them in the clear for me and my friends to read - and then it is not espionage, because it's "only a revelation"?

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#85
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new government does seem to be less vocal so far. But the person who (narrowly) won the last election was Chavez's preferred successor, so there hasn't been a major change in policies. I think it's still an open question how their policies will developer longer-term.

In March, Maduro accused the US of trying to kill his opponent in the bid for President, right after accusing the US of giving Chávez cancer that led to the seat being empty in the first place. Some US politicians asked for a recount after the Venezuelan election, as has become customary. There was no recount. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/17/us-venezuela-elect... http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/12/world/amer…

* There is customary to make a check of the 54% of the vote stations. This was done the same day of the elections, before publishing the official results. * There is not customary make a "recount" of votes in Venezuela. * Nevertheless, the electoral council accepted a request made by the opposition to check the another 46% of the stations. * The opposition welcomed the new audit... for a few hours. * Then they added a lot of new requests and refused to participate in the audit. * The audit result confirmed the original result.

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#86
post #52
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that the HK governments press release reads like diplomat speak for "fuck you, we let him leave even though we know exactly where he left from, and btw. fuck you for spying on us in case you wondered why we're not doing your dirty business (ps: fuck you)", while many other governments would have bent over backwards to accommodate the US, it does indeed seem to have been a quite good starting point.

It's more like they kicked him out and wrote a snotty press release about it to save face.

Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. But I'm pretty sure whoever wrote that press release immensely enjoyed being allowed to write something so, by diplomatic standards, incredibly crass.

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I would consider exposing our next-generation fighter plans to the Internet gross negligence. That's all I'm saying.

You can consider whatever you want to be gross negligence. The legal system, on the other hand, would look to things like the exact circumstances, the reasons things were done as they were, and whether and to what degree the relevant actions deviated from relevant rules, regulations, and standard practices in similar situations. And unless you have all of that information, you can't possibly make that judgement.

Like I said, it's just my opinion dude, so don't get all worked up. And if you're not getting worked up, my apologies, but that's how your replies seem to me.

For instance, it seems like common sense or widely accepted practice that sensitive materials should be stored on machines that should be air-gapped, and common knowledge informs legal decisions about what is gross negligence or not.

For instance:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Gross+negligen...

"If one has borrowed or contracted to take care of another's property, then gross negligence is the failure to actively take the care one would of his/her own property."

Obviously this is open to interpretation and maybe the contractors responsible leave their own private affairs open willy-nilly to the world, but I would suppose they shouldn't have security clearance then...

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#88
post #76
post #20

Why do we know all this? If he had such a perfect plan why does the whole world know where he's headed? Or maybe he's just really bad at keeping secrets.

It could be misdirection: Buy a ticket to Venezuela on Aeroflot expecting it to leak and quietly buy a Moscow-somewhere ticket on a different airline.

It also gives cover to the Russian government. They could rightfully report that he did indeed have a ticket to Cuba but leave out the fact he also has a ticket to somewhere else, or maybe the plane on its trans-atlantic journey is forced by circumstance to land briefly in a friendly country somewhere along the flight path. We should know soon enough :)

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#89
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My step-father told me a great story about the Cuban Missile Crisis. While Washington and Moscow at each other's throats, he was on a US Navy warship turning away freighters carrying missiles bound for Cuba. As his boat got close to the Russian ships, the crews on either side would wave at each other and take pictures. Regular ol' people to be friendly no matter their background and are not representative of how thei…

The Good American syndrome.

Haha, just like the Innocent Foreigner syndrome. Most people on this world have to live by the rules of others unfortunately.

Re: Snowden's destination is Venezuela through Havana

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the current government is extremely fragile having against them both pro and anti Chavez groups

The problem is not whether the government is fragile or not, is whether Russia will stand for Venezuela at the end. I'm Venezuelan and I can be sure that the government has enough problems right now to be in War or anything like that with USA. Russia would be a better place to stay.

The US is not going to go to war with Venezuela. Obama is having enough problems getting a war with Syria going for that to happen.
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