U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#31

Post by mindstab » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:44 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #18

fragmede wrote: post #6

Interestingly, according to that article, he hasn't been charged with treason, 'just' espionage, theft and conversion of government property. Someone more qualified than I can elaborate, but treason is a much harder crime to prove than espionage (like murder vs. manslaughter). Edit: According to the video link provided by spdy, the crime needs to exist in both systems (ie Hong Kong and the US) in order for an extradi…

Can you imagine a jury of 12 all believing that what he did was not in the interests of his country?

Sadly that's not how your legal system works any more. I don't have the link handy but it came up here recently with that environmental activist who just got out of jail for breaking up an illegal auction of land. He thought he'd be fine but when the prosecution found that many of the jurors had received a juror's rights pamphlet out lining the basic foundations of your country like that jurys are supposed to be a social check on the laws and the social conscience they threw a fit and they with the judge 1 by 1 interviewed potential jury members and sent home anyone who wouldn't agree to follow the judges orders and interpretations of the law and just vote to convict on weather or not he broke the law, not weather the law was just or what he did was for a greater good.

And so with a jury stacked against him (some may say against the original spirit of your legal system) he ended up with years in jail. Mean while in the course of trying to redo the auction they of course found that it was illegal and didn't do it.

So he felt he'd saved the land and it was worth a few years of his life.

Snowden faces worse and again probably a fairly stacked jury if it were to ever come to that. Tho they could also just indefinitely detain him nakedly in a micro cell in solitary etc etc etc.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#32

Post by jlgreco » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:44 PM UTC

scw wrote: post #22

jlgreco wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though it is important to keep in mind that 40% of all sickdays are taken on Mondays or Fridays.

Isn't Monday and Friday 40% of the work week?

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1996-04-17/ ;)

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#33

Post by skwirl » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:46 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

I don't think putting pressure on the government to fire the prosecutor who filed the petition is likely to work. A poll earlier this week found that the majority of Americans want Snowden charged and disapprove of what he has done. You need to start with petitioning your fellow Americans.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#34

Post by fnordfnordfnord » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:46 PM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #26

I have a feeling we're never going to see the rest of the data Greenwald supposedly has.

Why? I doubt Snowden expected anything different.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#35

Post by eli » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:47 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

Huh? Why would the prosecutor be fired?

And a Congressional pardon? Are you sure about that?

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#36

Post by DanielRibeiro » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:47 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

The pardon petition also only needs more 7k signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...

Remember that the goal is to get the government address the issue, and show that the people are not fine with the NSA's actions. It would be nice to get them to actually pardon him, but that is a much harder goal.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#37

Post by spdy » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:48 PM UTC

codex wrote: post #11

It looks like this charge can carry the death penalty because it involves "communications intelligence". From http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 : "(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or…

Now the states he can move to just went up.

Death penalty: Many countries, such as Australia, Canada, Macao, New Zealand, South Africa, and most European nations except Belarus, will not allow extradition if the death penalty may be imposed on the suspect unless they are assured that the death sentence will not be passed or carried out.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#38

Post by achughes » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:48 PM UTC

codex wrote: post #11

It looks like this charge can carry the death penalty because it involves "communications intelligence". From http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 : "(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or…

If they didn't give Robert Hanssen the death penalty, I highly doubt Snowden is going to get it

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#39

Post by sigzero » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:51 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #35

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

Huh? Why would the prosecutor be fired? And a Congressional pardon? Are you sure about that?

Neither of those is ever going to happen, petition or no petition.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#40

Post by ericgoldberg » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 10:51 PM UTC

We created a pro-Snowden collection of shirts, stickers, and hats if you want to show your support. There's a link to donate to his cause too. http://www.wishplz.com/product-collections/bDRzO6c7Stw0vSVh2...