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Battery Swap [video]

teslamotors.com

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Re: Battery Swap [video]

#131

Post by abalone »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #44

I saw it and wondered "what about dirt"? Dust, gravel, spilled oil, the stray coke can. Rain (yes it does sometimes rain in California). This is a fine stage demo, but really? We're talking enormous sealed electric bombs, swapped out by automated wrench and jack platforms, then a subterranean battery-storage-and-recharge system. The bigger technology than 'doing it at all' is 'keeping it working under environmental c…

As with most high tech, these problems were worked out by military applications at taxpayer expense. Better Place (the Israeli predecessor to this) based their swap stations on the tech used to load bombs onto jets. No doubt Tesla is standing on those shoulders.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#132

Post by andrewmunsell »

ISL wrote: post #111
kryten wrote: post #3

Considering human nature first, and the assumption that these battery swap sites will probably be unattended, I wonder how long before someone will work out how to steal those batteries?

If batteries are that easy to remove, how long does it take someone to steal a battery in a parking lot?

You're going to crawl under a car with power tools, unhook the battery, and potentially smash yourself/head/hand with an extremely large pack of batteries, then try and drag it out of under the car?

I feel like it'd be easier just to siphon someone's gas...

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#133

Post by JPKab »

robomartin wrote: post #121

As an engineer I would have preferred to have seen a shot from under the car showing the actual process. It's unfortunate that they chose to record it from a hundred feet away. As for the reality of this swap deal. Well, it sounds like a logistical pain in the ass. You are required to come back and get your original battery pack back or pay the difference in cost for the new one. Option number two could be in the tho…

I think the business model needs to mimic that of the BetterPlace idea: Users of battery swapping stations pay a monthly fee, and the battery is seen more as a commodity which is rented by the user, but owned by the company.

Coming back to get a battery is absurd, and should never happen.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#134

Post by kdsudac »

rossjudson wrote: post #130
Swizec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10 gallons per minute, that's still just 2 minutes pumping time. (23 gallons) Edit: I checked again, he pumps for 2.5 minutes and gets exactly 23 gallons. So I guess the pump isn't as fast as Elon says on stage. But it still surprised me because, well, that's about twice as long as what I'm used to :)

As Musk points out, this is the fastest pump they could find in their area. Pumps vary tremendously in speed. Actually I'm curious about why the same pumps are sometimes fast, and sometimes very slow. Anybody know? Does tank level really matter that much?

Haha, well if Musk says so it must be true!

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#135

Post by schainks »

alainbryden wrote: post #97

I wonder if anyone has considered buying a Tesla (free recharges for life), driving home every day and finding a way to discharge the battery back into the grid through their meter to negate their home electricity bill.

utilities have looked into this "smart grid" application for a while.

The bigger issue, I think, is what's the likelihood that your house/grid will drain your car battery before it can be recharged enough for you to be able to drive somewhere?

And you just _know_ someone is going to complain about "my car battery was drained without my permission! privacy rights! privacy rights!"

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#136

Post by joshdance »

Cool demo of the technology. Cool technology. But many if not most of electric car owners will never use it. They only travel to a from work, around town, into the city. Road trips are few and far in between. It is nice to know you CAN, not that you will.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#137

Post by arthulia »

lotu wrote: post #122
robomartin wrote: post #121

As an engineer I would have preferred to have seen a shot from under the car showing the actual process. It's unfortunate that they chose to record it from a hundred feet away. As for the reality of this swap deal. Well, it sounds like a logistical pain in the ass. You are required to come back and get your original battery pack back or pay the difference in cost for the new one. Option number two could be in the tho…

Well if we assume you only do battery swaps then the cost of your "old" battery would be almost the cost of a new battery so that case you would be paying only small amount for each battery swap. The reason they do this would be because otherwise someone with a 3 year old battery that needs replacement would be able to get a new battery effectively for free.

If you swapped batteries for a recurring subscription fee, it would help to offset the cost of batteries wearing out.

Battery replacement is a huge problem with electric and hybrid vehicles right now. The cost of replacing the battery is similar to the cost of replacing a combustion engine, yet the battery will wear out considerably sooner. A good system like this could remove that factor entirely.

A company called BetterPlace[0] has/had plans to do this.

[0] http://www.betterplace.com/How-it-Works/battery-switch-stati...

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#138

Post by shabble »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #101
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #44

I saw it and wondered "what about dirt"? Dust, gravel, spilled oil, the stray coke can. Rain (yes it does sometimes rain in California). This is a fine stage demo, but really? We're talking enormous sealed electric bombs, swapped out by automated wrench and jack platforms, then a subterranean battery-storage-and-recharge system. The bigger technology than 'doing it at all' is 'keeping it working under environmental c…

I don't doubt they have all of those issues covered, but was looking at some of the damage reports from Hurricane Sandy on the subway in Manhattan and thought "hmm if a surge of saltwater submerged one of these things you would only have a limited time to get it un-submerged before the saltwater got into the packs. When that happened you'd be in a world of hurt.

There was some drama about a bunch of Fisker EVs catching fire[1] after immersion, but apparently[2] not (directly) battery-related.

Offhand, I'm not sure if the specific battery chemistry requires vents for in/out-gassing, or whether you could reasonably fully seal them. Or I suppose you could[3] have the battery pack detect such a condition and use its power to electrolyse some water to keep the pack at positive pressure. Or maybe some kind of self-destruct that dumps the stored energy into a chemical reaction or passivates the cells somehow (wave hands)

[1] http://jalopnik.com/5956179/more-than-a-dozen-fisker-karma-h...

[2] http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1080277_fisker-determines...

[3] points will be awarded for the number of different ways this is a bad idea

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#139

Post by prbuckley »

rossjudson wrote: post #130
Swizec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10 gallons per minute, that's still just 2 minutes pumping time. (23 gallons) Edit: I checked again, he pumps for 2.5 minutes and gets exactly 23 gallons. So I guess the pump isn't as fast as Elon says on stage. But it still surprised me because, well, that's about twice as long as what I'm used to :)

As Musk points out, this is the fastest pump they could find in their area. Pumps vary tremendously in speed. Actually I'm curious about why the same pumps are sometimes fast, and sometimes very slow. Anybody know? Does tank level really matter that much?

I think it has to do with how much fuel is in the gas stations storage tanks. When the tanks get low they pump more slowly. I think it has to do with the pressure created by the weight of fuel pushing gas out of the bottom of the tank faster, there is more potential energy to push the gas faster in a full tank, mass x gravity x height equals potential energy.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#140

Post by notjustanymike »

joshdance wrote: post #136

Cool demo of the technology. Cool technology. But many if not most of electric car owners will never use it. They only travel to a from work, around town, into the city. Road trips are few and far in between. It is nice to know you CAN, not that you will.

"...nice to know you can" is exactly the point. You're right about day to day use; what this does is calm the range anxiety.
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