Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Battery Swap [video]

teslamotors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 178 posts

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#61

Post by leephillips »

swalsh wrote: post #48

Between cars sexier than swimsuit models, and owning all the infrastructure to support them Tesla has a real potential to be a giant company. I don't usually buy individual stocks, but Tesla keeps looking more lucrative in the long term. If he can survive in the short term, there's a great future.

I have little doubt. I live in Virginia, one of the states whose government (or whose county governments) has been conspiring with a cartel of car dealers to try to forbid Tesla from selling their cars. Something happened, because I was in a mall yesterday and suddenly found myself next to a Tesla store. Those cars are stunning in person, inside and out. It was low key, like an Apple store. I don't usually get excited about cars and things, but if I had had $86,000 in my pocket I would have bought one. There was an emotional attraction that was very surprising. It felt like I was looking at a better future.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#62

Post by carbocation »

quackerhacker wrote: post #58
lttlrck wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still need to get out to clean the windshield. Whats the big deal with getting out anyway?

I only brought that up since here where I'm at in NorCal, there were tons of bugs when I filed my tank recently. Also if you have kids in the car, it's convenient, it's like asking why are there drive thru's at restaurants, car washes, and atm machines. Not sure that #1 applies to everyone...I remember on a road trip, in Oregon it's against the law for me to fill my OWN tank. EDIT: Added wife's 2 cents

I actively avoid running low on fuel in New Jersey (compulsory full-service stations). I don't mind getting out of my car to get gas; the station attendant is doing nothing of value for me. I'm neither done faster not is the fuel in some way better than if I filled the car myself.

In contrast, I do see the value in having a battery exchange (it's something they can do better for me than I could do myself). In that case, not getting out of the car is still essentialy a non-factor for me, but it does end up being a tiny perk.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#63

Post by a-priori »

btucker wrote: post #51

The swap will cost between $60 & $80[1]. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUS...

The cost is fine, about what it costs to fill a gas tank, give or take. But what about this:

"Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim their original battery on their return trip or pay the difference in cost for the new pack."

That seems... inconvenient.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#64

Post by mfenniak »

calinet6 wrote: post #25
blackdogie wrote: post #18

I would like to know is there a capacity for the number of battery replacements they system can do ? I guess they recharge your battery and pass it on to the next person when it's fully charged. How do they insure battery quality for the replacements. Still a F'ing awesome demo.

This is the key reason you'd want to do this in the first place. It not only solves the problem of quickly charging the battery, it solves the problem of battery quality over time! The mere fact that you have batteries being swapped in and out of cars means you can systematically track battery health and refurbish batteries that are getting low, without ever having to bother the customer or affect the driveability of…

According to this article (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUS...):

    A battery pack swap will cost between $60 and $80,
    about the same as filling up a 15-gallon gas tank,
    Musk said. Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim
    their original battery on their return trip or pay
    the difference in cost for the new pack.
So, I think they're not quite tackling the battery quality problem like you're suggesting. I think your idea makes a lot more sense than coming back to reclaim your battery later, though. I find that very odd.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#65

Post by artursapek »

a-priori wrote: post #63
btucker wrote: post #51

The swap will cost between $60 & $80[1]. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUS...

The cost is fine, about what it costs to fill a gas tank, give or take. But what about this: " Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim their original battery on their return trip or pay the difference in cost for the new pack. " That seems... inconvenient.

That answers the one question I had watching that video: does this mean we just freely circulate battery packs with varying amounts of usage?

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#66

Post by codeulike »

lttlrck wrote: post #60

That was very long winded given that it was promoting speed. Would an A8 Audi owner pay more to fill up faster? Nope. Because it doesn't actually take very long.

The point is, an electrical charge can take 30 minutes or so, not that a petrol stop takes too long.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#67

Post by calinet6 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #57
calinet6 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going on long trips every single mile? Otherwise you're charging it at home, at work, or using a supercharger while you eat lunch. You may only swap the batt 10 times or less in those 37,500 miles. And you still get all the battery-quality advantages.

You've figured it wrong. After 37500 miles of long-distance driving, you have paid as much as a battery pack. Do you do less than that many long-distance miles in a normal car lifetime?

The point is that before this, charging (even with a supercharger in ~1 hour) was the accepted method of filling the battery, and it was free and/or cheap. That is still a perfectly acceptable method.

Now you also have the choice of swapping, which provides you with a guarantee of a constantly healthy battery, a fast full charge, and continuous long-distance capability.

I see your point—if you're doing 37,500 miles of long-distance, you're going to eventually pay for the battery cost over time. Possibly. But you have the choice, and it's going to be amortized over so many snap decisions that it's more like, "the convenience of this is worth $40 to me right now," rather than thinking of it as the cost of a new battery.

I think it works out, personally. And for most people, charging is a perfectly acceptable way to drive the car. I think people won't really swap the battery that often, and when they do it'll be because they need the time benefit, and that's the value proposition.

For others, they get the same battery-life and battery-health benefits by swapping only once in a while, or hell, even only when their current battery dies completely. Basically, everyone wins, and it's still about the same cost as gas for a 22mpg car, even if you swap 50% of the time. If you swap less than that, it's cheaper to operate in the same period of time. Simple as that.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#68

Post by calinet6 »

a-priori wrote: post #63
btucker wrote: post #51

The swap will cost between $60 & $80[1]. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUS...

The cost is fine, about what it costs to fill a gas tank, give or take. But what about this: " Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim their original battery on their return trip or pay the difference in cost for the new pack. " That seems... inconvenient.

Oooh... that's not good.

I envisioned it as an insurance-like system: you pay for battery swaps, which cost X amount, which goes toward the collective maintenance of all the batteries in the whole system. Thus you don't have to worry about which battery is yours, or the health of your battery, or anything about the battery anymore. That simplicity alone makes it worth the price of admission.

If they're worried about specific batteries and specific costs and specific maintenance tied to you, then I think they system has too many complex details to make it an easy snap decision. UX won't be as good, not as smooth, and it'll deter people from using the service... I think they need to go the collective route to make this work.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#69

Post by m_mueller »

mfenniak wrote: post #64
calinet6 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the key reason you'd want to do this in the first place. It not only solves the problem of quickly charging the battery, it solves the problem of battery quality over time! The mere fact that you have batteries being swapped in and out of cars means you can systematically track battery health and refurbish batteries that are getting low, without ever having to bother the customer or affect the driveability of…

According to this article ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/21/us-tesla-swap-idUS... ): A battery pack swap will cost between $60 and $80, about the same as filling up a 15-gallon gas tank, Musk said. Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim their original battery on their return trip or pay the difference in cost for the new pack. So, I think they're not quite tackling the battery quality problem like you're s…

My guess is the cost structure of such an infrastructure is at first prohibitive to offer a complete swap at 60-80$. Once the market is big enough they might be able to switch to the model suggested abovr.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#70

Post by calinet6 »

artursapek wrote: post #65
a-priori wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost is fine, about what it costs to fill a gas tank, give or take. But what about this: " Drivers who choose to swap must reclaim their original battery on their return trip or pay the difference in cost for the new pack. " That seems... inconvenient.

That answers the one question I had watching that video: does this mean we just freely circulate battery packs with varying amounts of usage?

Ideally the system would be extremely smart: not just freely circulating anything, but tracking the health of each and every battery, doing automated maintenance as much as possible, and circulating certain batteries out for refurb if they get too low.

It should be like battery insurance: you'd just never have to worry about it, and there would be an extremely smart system ensuring the health of every Tesla battery on the road. "Should" being the key word here... but maybe that's the plan, hard to say.

Post reply on HN