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Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

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Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#41
post #5

Obama: > You have my telephone number connecting with your telephone number. There are no names. There is no content in that database...At no point is any content revealed because there’s no content that...the FBI — if, in fact, it now wants to get content; if, in fact, it wants to start tapping that phone Snowden ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-n... ): > If I target for example an email…

One wonders how we score intermediate foreign mail servers or proxies for the purpose of determining tappability.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You skipped something - besides the foreign entities that represent a perpetual threat, you also have the internal elements classified as " fierce civil libertarians ", for now ;-)

Yes, yes, we had those, too. In the beginning, they were fierce opposites of progress, prisoners of the old mentality. It then became rather uncomfortable to label them as such, when a twenty-year old mentality was about as old as the regime itself, so we ended up with similar derogatory terms: fiercely anarchist, adversaries of order, hippies, and as the reality got more and more dire, mentally-troubled and drug use…

These "dedicated malcontents", I presume?

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#43
post #21

The reason that FISA warrant requests have such a high acceptance rate is because a federal prosecutor wouldn't ask for one unless they were certain it would be approved. They don't have to file a request every time a federal agent wants a warrant. They have the option to say "You need to gather more evidence". They say a good trial lawyer won't ask a witness a question without knowing what the answer will be. FBI la…

Not just high acceptance rate, but 100% acceptance rate(or close to it).

Why fucking bother about courts at all? Just let them obtain the information they want without any hassle: they are professional and know the law.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#44
post #18

Dear God, it's like I'm a kid again. I didn't grow up in the US; when I was a kid, we didn't have this kind of interviews on TV. For one thing, most of the TV shows they aired was propaganda, and it was so utterly boring most of us didn't bother. The newspapers, on the other hand, carried propaganda along with the news, so you kindda had to read it, too, if you were to know what's happening. The smarter folks could e…

Exactly.

It's 2013 and the USA needs a Glasnost movement. It's ironic but here we go.

Secret courts, secret court orders, rubber stamped approvals. Gag orders on anybody coming in contact with said secret court orders. Where are we? Khmer Rouge Cambodia? Because it sure does not sound like the Land Of The Free.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#45
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing I hate about media. Charlie, dude, you're the moderator. You're a journalist who's been schooled and has tens of years of experience in the field, whose duty is to inform your viewers/readers about current events. If they aren't informed, ask the fucking question. "But has FISA turned down any request?" "The -- because -- whatever". "Ok, so has it turned down any request?"

You'll enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk (not american, sadly)

This was significant for Michael Howard, and it helped to absolutely kill any chance he had of becoming PM. Jeremy Paxman can be a bit of a dick at times, especially when he's up against someone who has done their research, but he's a fantastic person to put against politicians.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes, we had those, too. In the beginning, they were fierce opposites of progress, prisoners of the old mentality. It then became rather uncomfortable to label them as such, when a twenty-year old mentality was about as old as the regime itself, so we ended up with similar derogatory terms: fiercely anarchist, adversaries of order, hippies, and as the reality got more and more dire, mentally-troubled and drug use…

These "dedicated malcontents", I presume?

Yeah, there were enough terms for it. The scarring this left in the popular consciousness is impressive though. More than twenty years later, the exact same phrasings are still being used occasionally, and with the same meanings, especially by older people.

The sorriest part is that today's teenagers don't notice it, or don't know it. and underestimate what's under the words. A couple of years ago I went to visit my parents and I went hiking. There was a group of secondary school students who were on a school trip with their teacher, an obtuse, uptight old lady who had probably missed a couple of anger management appointments. I wasn't travelling with them, we were just hiking on the same trail, but hearing her yell and shout was probably doable a couple of hike trails away, too.

I don't interfere with this -- I hated school and firmly believe in natural selection, so I leave it to kids to make the life of these people as miserable as possible -- but when she scoffed at two particularly dedicated malcontents, calling them the "most agitating elements of the classroom" and "hooligans" (the word is actually somewhat more politically-loaded, but untranslatable -- it's roughly similar with, but not quite, "hooligan"), I snapped and asked her if this assessment is going to go on the record she'll write (again, untranslatable -- what I used was slang for "are you going to write this in your signed declaration for the state security apparatus", as a couple of decades into the regime, it became well-known that some citizens were actually spying and reporting on their neighbours, colleagues and friends). The combination of hatred, surprise, and desperation at not being able to "write me up" or otherwise screw with me, since -- not being her pupil -- I wasn't subject to he whims was chilling.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These "dedicated malcontents", I presume?

Yeah, there were enough terms for it. The scarring this left in the popular consciousness is impressive though. More than twenty years later, the exact same phrasings are still being used occasionally, and with the same meanings, especially by older people. The sorriest part is that today's teenagers don't notice it, or don't know it. and underestimate what's under the words. A couple of years ago I went to visit my…

It's distressing, because the way that felonies and whatnot are handled nowadays, there does seem to be a rough approximation of this sort of black book phenomenon.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#49
post #18

Dear God, it's like I'm a kid again. I didn't grow up in the US; when I was a kid, we didn't have this kind of interviews on TV. For one thing, most of the TV shows they aired was propaganda, and it was so utterly boring most of us didn't bother. The newspapers, on the other hand, carried propaganda along with the news, so you kindda had to read it, too, if you were to know what's happening. The smarter folks could e…

> And what that does is that does not apply to any U.S. person. Has to be a foreign entity. Referring to a living, breathing human being with feelings, emotions, needs and wants (just like any American) as an "entity" is what Rory Miller calls "othering" [1]. The point of othering is to remove the humanity from someone or from a group of people. It makes it easier for someone to monitor, torture and... kill someone e…

The media could help here, by instead of using the administration words in their articles, they'd be using their words - the normal words.

Also, at every press conference where they say "entities", they could ask, do you mean "people"? Or something along those lines. The people in the media are American citizens, too. It would help if they'd try to defend their own rights, too, instead of being nice to the government, which they are supposed to keep in check.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk (not american, sadly)

This was significant for Michael Howard, and it helped to absolutely kill any chance he had of becoming PM. Jeremy Paxman can be a bit of a dick at times, especially when he's up against someone who has done their research, but he's a fantastic person to put against politicians.

Anne Widdecombe's remark about that he had "something of the night about him" didn't exactly help his chances:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/691317...

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