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Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

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11–20 of 78 posts

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#11

Best article I have read in a while. It's tragic comedy how they get a way with it. I mean i tried asking a group of friends what they thought, to learn they don't know what the fuck PRISM is! It usually goes. "No one cares about, what the government does, your just weird." I'm anti social so the only time I hangout with them is when I'm stoned. So I can see why I'm weird to the average teenager, but to not know abou…

It's questionable that they are "getting away with it". The implications of what they've done are incredibly vast and damning. Not to mention, persistent - people now know everything they type on their computer is handed over to the government. That doesn't go away, no matter how much the media might want to ignore the subject. I'd actually be surprised if they completely get away with it. At least a few people will…

NYT columnist Maureen Dowd recently described a supposed political strategy in a recent column:

“It’s not true, it’s not true, it’s not true, it’s old news.”

If you can delay and delay and delay until the outrage disapates you just might be able to get away with something outrageous.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/opinion/sunday/dowd-when-m...

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#12
post #10

Obama is almost certainly the best spoken US President in 50 years. But when asked a simple, straightforward yes or no question: "But has FISA court turned down any request?" We get this answer: "The — because — the — first of all, Charlie, the number of requests are surprisingly small… number one. Number two, folks don’t go with a query unless they’ve got a pretty good suspicion." Just blather, incoherence and grasp…

The inarticulate, chopped-up sentences are one thing. But he's always been really big on the doublespeak, in my opinion.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#15
post #10

Obama is almost certainly the best spoken US President in 50 years. But when asked a simple, straightforward yes or no question: "But has FISA court turned down any request?" We get this answer: "The — because — the — first of all, Charlie, the number of requests are surprisingly small… number one. Number two, folks don’t go with a query unless they’ve got a pretty good suspicion." Just blather, incoherence and grasp…

The inarticulate, chopped-up sentences are just an artifact of the article's author purposefully being nasty to Obama. Everybody talks like that; it's just not quoted as a matter of course.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#17

Best article I have read in a while. It's tragic comedy how they get a way with it. I mean i tried asking a group of friends what they thought, to learn they don't know what the fuck PRISM is! It usually goes. "No one cares about, what the government does, your just weird." I'm anti social so the only time I hangout with them is when I'm stoned. So I can see why I'm weird to the average teenager, but to not know abou…

It's questionable that they are "getting away with it". The implications of what they've done are incredibly vast and damning. Not to mention, persistent - people now know everything they type on their computer is handed over to the government. That doesn't go away, no matter how much the media might want to ignore the subject. I'd actually be surprised if they completely get away with it. At least a few people will…

Like they get away with Guantanamo? "Enhanced interrogation"? Still being in the middle east? No-knock warrants?

Please. This is the System. Nobody of any consequence will go to jail, because the System writes its own rules.

That probably sounds a little tin-hatty, but face it, you're counting on the Government to properly regulate the Government, while waving TERR'STS and AL'QAEDA and an American flag. It's not going to happen.

Eventually it will happen, but today is not that day.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#18
Dear God, it's like I'm a kid again.

I didn't grow up in the US; when I was a kid, we didn't have this kind of interviews on TV. For one thing, most of the TV shows they aired was propaganda, and it was so utterly boring most of us didn't bother. The newspapers, on the other hand, carried propaganda along with the news, so you kindda had to read it, too, if you were to know what's happening. The smarter folks could even read between the lines.

This one struck the most sensible chord:

> And what that does is that does not apply to any U.S. person. Has to be a foreign entity.

Entities. Not individuals, not groups, but entities. If you're an American citizen, you're cool. If you're a foreign entity, you're preeeetty much either a ladybug or a human, either way, it's pretty much the same thing.

This was Communist speak for non-Communist (to be fair, it was the twisted kind of Soviet-inspired Communism). We had communist workers and teachers and housewives, but foreign elements. Our country had communist friends but the democratic entities weren't that friendly.

This defensive depersonalization makes it very easy to strip away ethics. Butchering unarmed civilians sounds a lot more horrifying than annihilating non-combatant, but dangerous entities.

> The — because — the — first of all, Charlie, the number of requests are surprisingly small… number one. Number two, folks don’t go with a query unless they’ve got a pretty good suspicion.

This sounds very much like the kind of conversation that, at some point, was taking place between Soviet representatives and representatives of various other subordinated, but somewhat nasty countries of the Soviet block.

It's the kind of stuff that was handed out to us during the talks about the Warszaw pact. Is it true that the Soviet Union has supreme command of all troops and can invade any territory, even that of its allies? Well, no, I mean, it wouldn't be an invasion. It's a trade-off we have do for our freedom: should the Revolution be abandoned in any of the member countries, the allied countries should intervene to restore the right values. That is why the Soviet Union has to have representatives at all levels, must be informed of every decision. It's one of those things we must concede for democracy -- we need to entrust our freedom to people who can protect it. Words like freedom, democracy, values and way of life were freely thrown in -- ours was the land of the brave and free, unlike that of the oppressed working-class friends living in imperialist, totalitarian states.

I shivered a bit when I read this.

Edit: BTW, just to practice my reading-between-the-lines muscle, my guess is that a) FISA hasn't turned down any request yet and b) the requests were summarily "reviewed" and approved, through a short process that should give legal backing. In other words, FISA isn't there to actually review the requests, it's there simply in order to fill in the paperwork that's needed in order to make the whole thing seem legitimate.

In the early days of the regime, we had something similar to this, too. The curious dudes submitted a request to a committee of representatives of the people -- the request was basically a form which said that the following people have highly suspicious activities that can be a threat to the security of our people, to the Revolution and the communist way of life we have so hardly fought for (actual fucking words!) and was recommended to be placed under surveillance. These were signed pretty much in bulk -- the representatives of the people usually signed a big list at the bottom. Later on, this was eventually dropped: complaining about paperwork was useless, and after a few years it became obvious complaining about paperwork was so dangerous that when it was no longer required, no one dared do anything about it.

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#19
post #10

Obama is almost certainly the best spoken US President in 50 years. But when asked a simple, straightforward yes or no question: "But has FISA court turned down any request?" We get this answer: "The — because — the — first of all, Charlie, the number of requests are surprisingly small… number one. Number two, folks don’t go with a query unless they’ve got a pretty good suspicion." Just blather, incoherence and grasp…

This is the thing I hate about media.

Charlie, dude, you're the moderator. You're a journalist who's been schooled and has tens of years of experience in the field, whose duty is to inform your viewers/readers about current events. If they aren't informed, ask the fucking question. "But has FISA turned down any request?" "The -- because -- whatever". "Ok, so has it turned down any request?"

Re: Obama Can’t Confirm If Courts Ever Rejected Spying Requests

#20
>What I can say unequivocally is that if you are a U.S. person, the NSA cannot listen to your telephone calls, and the NSA cannot target your emails … and have not.

So I'm screwed as a non-US citizen, and so are the 2.5billion people using the internet outside of US purview. Now I'm seriously considering a switch to safer alternatives.

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