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Linux has better hardware support than OS X

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Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#141

Post by edent »

beagle3 wrote: post #117
edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

Can you list your "known working" platform (Macbook model, Linux distro and version, etc?) or a good place to find those, if you know one? I'm going to replace my laptop soon, and am considering a Mac, but I've been running only Linux since 2005, and would love to know how to pick a Mac that would allow me to continue doing that.

I'm using Ubuntu 12.04 I think. Linux version 3.2.0-48-generic (buildd@komainu) (gcc version 4.6.3 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) ) #74-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 6 19:43:26 UTC 2013

Running on a 13 inch MacBook Air.

There's a guide at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir4-2

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#142

Post by jfarmer »

pyre wrote: post #132
jfarmer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But still, let's imagine I did professional work that required professional hardware. Further, let's imagine that Linux supported my current setup perfectly. My setup won't be my setup forever. Maybe some new hardware comes out and I want to experiment with it. Will it work with Linux? Will the person making that hardware have Linux in mind when they're building it? If my current hardware breaks, will it be eas…

> Is memorizing the list of "professional-grade" > hardware that works with Linux -- or perhaps just > the list of exceptions if that's the smaller list > -- worth my time as a professional? Why the focus on 'memorizing?' When you research the best appliance to buy, do you complain that you had to memorize the specs of (e.g.) different refrigerators? Or do you just do research/comparisons, buy the thing, and promptly…

Hmm, that's not quite what I meant. I know what I care about in a refrigerator and I know I'll be able to buy one with minimal hassle once I decide I want one. I'm free to research online and I'm relatively confident someone at the store will be able to answer my questions when I get there. I also have lots of friends (and family) who have purchased and installed refrigerators, so I can ask them for input if I want.

My dealings with hardware + Linux has not been like that at all. Instead, what works and what doesn't is essentially arbitrary. Some brands are generally more compatible, but there are always some make/model combinations you want to avoid. And even if it "mostly works" there's a good chance some of the less common features will work poorly, at best. When I say "memorize" I mean internalizing this essentially arbitrary list. The HP 450C is ok, but don't get the HP 451C! That sort of thing.

To top it off, if I go to the store and ask questions about Linux compatibility -- perhaps there's some information I couldn't find online, say -- I'm not at all confident I'll be able to find someone to answer my questions. And even if they didn't, I'd wonder if what they knew was up-to-date or not.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#143

Post by jfarmer »

brown wrote: post #100
jfarmer wrote: post #68

This is silly. Although I'm sure it's gotten much better since I regularly used Linux on the desktop, you always had to do some amount of due diligence about what hardware worked well with it and what hardware didn't. For example, because I use OS X, I can go to any store, purchase my choice of Lexmark printer, and be on my merry way with a minimal amount of checking. The fact that I have to know that there's a "refe…

I generally agree with your main point (that knowing about reference hardware is burdensome). However, your specific example (printers) is outdated. Both Linux and OSX use CUPS, which was acquired by Apple in 2007. Linux printer support is pretty spectacular these days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUPS#History

Sure. I've used Linux on the desktop since then. Even with printers it was still hit or miss. CUPS just acted as a catch-all, lowest-common-denominator of printing.

I'm pretty familiar with CUPS, too. I helped build a school-wide printing system at my university based off CUPS as part of my job at the time. It had to interface with our internal authentication system, debit student printing credits, and interface with dozens of types of printers across campus.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#144

Post by reeses »

keeperofdakeys wrote: post #108
rsync wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If there is any hardware platform that should be a "reference" platform for Linux (or FreeBSD) it should be the mac. It's a very tightly focused hardware ecosystem with broad adoption and of higher quality - inside and out.

There are a few reasons why a mac wouldn't make a good reference platform. Besides Apple changing hardware/firmware setups between every release, it doesn't have much official documentation and support for developers making an OS for it. Many people go to great pains to make linux run well on a Mac, especially hacking around the UEFI bugs that are present (not that they don't appear on other platforms either). You al…

"PS. Not to mention that Macs ship with broadcom wireless cards these days, which don't have very good linux support."

You're saying that OS X has better hardware support than Linux? :-)

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#145

Post by daywalker »

edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

System76 just announced a MBA/Ultrabook competitor.

Matte 1080 screen, quad core processor (8 hyperthreads), Intel 5200 gfx, two hard drives, upto 16GB ram... all in a 14 inch laptop not much bigger than the MBA 13, and of course it runs Linux perfectly.

Cost? Starts from just $995.

https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#146

Post by Derbasti »

edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

You wish. For years, I have been trying to run Linux on my dual GPU Macbook Pros. This generally works, but Linux always uses the "big" GPU, thus battery life is abysmal.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#147

Post by rosser »

Derbasti wrote: post #146
edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

You wish. For years, I have been trying to run Linux on my dual GPU Macbook Pros. This generally works, but Linux always uses the "big" GPU, thus battery life is abysmal.

All the following links were found by searching since your comment was posted:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=289711

https://github.com/ah-/gmux-scripts

http://www.linuxine.com/story/how-do-i-use-integrated-intel-...

http://askubuntu.com/questions/126862/how-to-use-integrated-...

I make no warranty that the linked recipes, scripts, or suggestions work, but your "you wish" warrants refutation.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#148

Post by VMG »

kryten wrote: post #9
taeric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been away from the Windows world for so long, I'm curious just how different it actually is. Sure, there are obvious choices for business use in many fields. Even Office is a somewhat obvious choice for most places. However, as a standard consumer, it is much too expensive to "just have." And, really, finding the correct software to just "make a greeting card" or something similar is terrible. Then there is th…

As a Windows and Linux user on a daily basis, I'll tell you that no-one bothers with Office unless they are running a business. Everyone else seems happy with ancient copies of OpenOffice that their cheap laptop came with or LibreOffice if they have to get involved in installing anything. Also, people don't organise photos with additional software now. Windows Explorer itself is pretty damn good at it to be honest an…

> Printing just works - plug in and go.

Meh: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Printing#Troubleshootin...

I'm still having issues with my Samsumg laser printer, and I specifically tried to acquire a printer that had good linux compatability

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#149

Post by seabrookmx »

rsync wrote: post #76
edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

Exactly. If there is any hardware platform that should be a "reference" platform for Linux (or FreeBSD) it should be the mac. It's a very tightly focused hardware ecosystem with broad adoption and of higher quality - inside and out.

> and of higher quality

That's completely your opinion. I have had much better luck with Thinkpads. Many of the Unibody Macbooks have severe wifi connectivity and overheating issues.

As far as broad adoption goes, it may be more broad than the adoption of Thinkpads, but I wouldn't call it "broad" by any stretch. Mac market share is still quite low - less than 10%.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#150

Post by Raticide »

steveklabnik wrote: post #71
herge wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a Macbook Pro with OSX 10.8 already installed, and I am pretty sure I will not have the same problems as sciurus if I buy 10.9. Dell could offer support for 13.04, or maybe Canonical could work to better support one of the few laptops out there with ubuntu on it out of the box.

If a Dell was purchased with Ubuntu pre-installed, I'm sure that a `sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` wouldn't bork during installation either.

If you have to use the command line then you've already failed.
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