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Linux has better hardware support than OS X

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Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#61
post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

Really? That's good to hear. I know support for MacBooks used to be quite poor in Ubuntu. I'm not sure when they got it up to snuff, but I know as recently as a couple of years ago (the last time I tried it), waking up from sleep was still a crapshoot on a MacBook Pro. Maybe it would wake up, maybe your trackpad would even still work after it woke up — but you were never sure.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, this is increasingly the case. Kernels 3.9.x still have power consumption issues when using suspend/resume on Tx2x (Sandy Bridge) machines. If you managed to buy a ThinkPad from that generation with "Thinkpad Wireless," good luck getting reliable wireless connectivity, as the binary blob 8188CE drivers are worse than garbage. As much as people talk about how AMAZING hardware support on linux is, if you want a "j…

Unfortunately Ingo has pretty much shitcanned any efforts to progress power saving support for the forseeable future, so don't expect things to improve.

Any good links to read up on this?

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#63
post #46

Six years ago I bought an Inspiron 14 that Dell sold with Ubuntu. A few weeks ago I got an XPS 13, the model Dell now sells with Ubuntu (although I didn't purchase the developer version because it had a longer shipping time and I needed it ASAP). Unfortunately, even on this "reference" hardware there are many frustrations. I installed 64-bit Ubuntu 13.04. Supposedly all of the special tweaks Dell makes to the version…

If you didn't buy the version with the OS installed, then it's not the same comparison. When you buy a MacBook, OS X is already installed and working. I don't know a whole lot about the Dells, but isn't the same true otherwise?

I bought a Macbook Pro with OSX 10.8 already installed, and I am pretty sure I will not have the same problems as sciurus if I buy 10.9.

Dell could offer support for 13.04, or maybe Canonical could work to better support one of the few laptops out there with ubuntu on it out of the box.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#64
post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

What about over heating?

I tried ubuntu 12.04, and 12.10 on a 2011 macbook air 4,2. I followed the information here, some of the tweaks weren't needed on 12.10:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir4-2

But the fans were spinning almost constantly. This was with just firefox and vim usage.

OS X seems to do a better job of running Apple hardware at a sensible temperature.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#65
post #15

Linux doesn't "just work" on Apple hardware. None of the major distros can currently get the Ethernet adapter on recent Mac Minis working. As a result, we have to run OS X on a bunch of Mac Mini servers we've planned to run Linux on.

Just curious, if you were just planning on running Linux, why buy Mac Minis?

For the hardware, I'd assume?

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#66
post #32
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Printing on Windows is so bad that people are employed just to fix it. Office crashes a lot and has compatibility issues with certain formats, and I often just direct people to LibreOffice, which in every case has fixed the problem and run smoothly. Any minor Windows system problem usually results in sending the machine to be re-imaged. If you're on Windows 8, a lot of old stuff simply doesn't work, and in the absenc…

I call bullshit. I've worked for a couple of printing outfits and Windows has by far been the most reliable bar some big ass Xerox machines with PostScript processing and a Sun workstation tied to it. Fuck, the most unreliable so far has been the PDF rendering engine inside OSX which sometimes just whacks the CPU at 100% and you have to kill the process. And don't give me the shitcrock of Ghostscript or CUPS as a bet…

I think if you work for a printing outfit, your exposure is likely to be skewed towards the realm of working solutions. My negative experience was always in getting some random computer to work with a random printer. Lets say a friend comes over, or I am at a friends house. If a friend came over, we'll have the joy of trying to find the drivers for the printer for their windows box. If I was at a friend's, it was always "just give me the usb cable."

That said, I don't have massive experience with crashes in Office. I do prefer plain text source files, though. To the point that I have begun using R for basic data analysis instead of excel. (Though, I make no claims that I can more quickly get a chart created than someone just clicking the chart button any any office application. I can more reliably reproduce my results, though.)

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#67
My experience consist of few debian installs back in the day, a lot of life boot CD to risque the data from dead windows laptops with dd nc and currently my main is Arch linux desktop. The occasional persistent mint USB flash for remote offices. And the occasional install and config of testing server environments.

No issues with hardware support at all. But there is very steep learning curve - I think that is the main thing the community must focus on. Just introduce new users to the system gently. I have few requests recently about migrating to linux after the NSA stuff blew up. And sadly have to tell the people not yet unless you like to get your hands dirty.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#68
This is silly. Although I'm sure it's gotten much better since I regularly used Linux on the desktop, you always had to do some amount of due diligence about what hardware worked well with it and what hardware didn't.

For example, because I use OS X, I can go to any store, purchase my choice of Lexmark printer, and be on my merry way with a minimal amount of checking. The fact that I have to know that there's a "reference platform" is the problem. I don't want to have to think about that crap. I don't have to with my Mac. I want to save my mental cycles for important things, not struggling with which printer to purchase.

Or I can put it in simpler terms. There's a concrete social cost to using Linux on the Desktop. Let's say I want a printer for Christmas. If I'm running the amount of information I need to give my family in order for them to buy me one that works is orders of magnitude smaller than if I'm running Linux.

In fact, I'd sound like some sort of bizarro printer snob when I make my request. "If you're looking at Lexmark printers, these models work, these ones don't. HP is good, but not models like X, Y, and Z."

Now, like I said, it's been several years since I regularly used Linux on the desktop. I'm sure it's better. But the problem is not that there aren't known-good Linux configurations. It's that (1) those configurations are essentially arbitrary and therefore not obvious and (2) they require time and energy to learn (memorize, really).

If it's changed, that's great, but that's also part of the problem. Now I not only have to keep a set of known-good configurations in my head but a rolling changelog, too, to make sure my knowledge is up-to-date.

I switched from Linux to OS X precisely because I decided my mental energy was better spent on other things than remembering, "Oh yeah, the Dell Lenovo X876123 mark 10 is a known-good Linux laptop."

I'll add that I'm sure in aggregate Linux supports a much wider range of hardware than OS X. That's great! That's why Linux is kicking ass in all sorts of non-desktop markets like mobile devices, embedded systems, servers, etc. But there is an inherent tension in an OS that's optimizing for that vs. constraining itself to the desktop and the desktop only.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#69

Valid points but the author highlights one of the original reasons I switched from a ThinkPad running Linux to a MacBook. All high end Linux laptops have driver issues, including ThinkPads. Last thing I knew you still couldn't switch between discreet NVIDIA graphics and the Intel 4000 without a reboot. I've been told some laptops still have issues with sleep / hibernation. Maybe the Dell XPS 13 highlighted in the art…

I've had an Nvidia Optimus + Intel 4000 since Nov 2012 and I never had to reboot, just specify when I wanted to run a particular program with Nvidia (games), everything else would run by default with Intel.

Everything worked out of the box, the only minor issue is that bluetooth audio connection with my jambox is sometimes lost, but i could never even get it to work with a Mac.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#70
If you mean "better" as in quantitatively more, then yes.

The quality of those drivers are far, far worse than the OSX drivers.

Also, how is it surprising that OSX has few drivers, when OSX is meant for very specific Apple-designed hardware?

Anyway. I'm running Ubuntu on a new Macbook Air (5,1), and both the touchpad and the Wifi drivers are an absolute atrocity on Linux.

A few things just doesn't work, like the keyboard backlight.

The LCD backlight is also broken, half the time you have to unplug and replug the power to get the backlight to light up after automatic dimming, for some reason.

As for wifi, I quote, live, from my syslog: Jun 16 22:27:45 laptop kernel: [28768.034285] brcmsmac bcma0:0: brcms_c_ampdu_dotxstatus_complete: Pkt tx suppressed, illegal channel possibly 48 Jun 16 22:27:45 laptop kernel: [28768.035618] brcmsmac bcma0:0: brcms_c_ampdu_dotxstatus_complete: Pkt tx suppressed, illegal channel possibly 48 Jun 16 22:27:45 laptop kernel: [28768.036427] brcmsmac bcma0:0: brcms_c_ampdu_dotxstatus_complete: Pkt tx suppressed, illegal channel possibly 48 ... etc ...

Constant disconnects, poor speed. Switch to the proprietary driver and bandwidth is 2-3x better and the disconnects disappear, though.

The trackpad issues seem unfixable, even though there are lots of options to fiddle with. The quality is just poor or the driver is not designed to work with the type of touchpad that the Mac has. Tapping causes the cursor to move to a new position before doing a click, left-clicking causes the cursor to zoom to the bottom left of the screen, etc. etc. etc. If the precision of the Mac touchpad driver is index 100, I would give the Linux driver a score of 5.

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