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Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

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Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#121

Post by akiselev »

anigbrowl wrote: post #93
msg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martin Luther King didn't live in a world where we imprison innocent men in legal limbo without trial or habeas corpus, or where we officially sanctioned torture and the oubliette. He could trust that he would be vindicated by the justice system. The whole point of the Snowden story is that the government is not trustworthy in this era. I would not trust the US government to give him justice any more than they did Aa…

You need to read more history. Without commenting on Snowden, I think the US is a substantially freer nation then it was in the time of MLK.

I wouldn't say that the US is substantially more free today than it was then.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#122

Post by anigbrowl »

jacquesm wrote: post #88
rayiner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its this sort of uneducated, a-historical crap that makes it impossible to read HN lately. If you think the government was less scary back then, in the grip of anti-communist paranoia, you're insane, deluded, or just plain uneducated. Saying that MLK could count on a fair shake from a justice system that didn't give any minority a fair shake back then, much less political radicals, is the height of ridiculousness.

Saying that Snowden will receive a fair shake today is also pretty ridiculous.

I don't think so. right now Major Nidal Hasan (the army psychiatrist who, by his own admission, perpetrated a small massacre at Fort Hood, Texas in 2009) is having a trial right now and acting as his own defense counsel. Predictably, he's making a hash of it and is likely to receive the death penalty because his only offered defense, which has been rejected as a matter of law, is that he was acting to protect the lives of Taliban leaders; but he's most certainly getting a fair trial - a fact which is irritating a great many people on the right.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#123

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

toyg wrote: post #115
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did. It wasn't without it's hiccups. But, there he is in NZ still doing two things that he apparently loves to do, trolling and making money.

He trolls Hollywood interests, Snowden is effectively trolling the whole US government; the difference is of some importance. NZ was in the original Echelon program, in terms of intelligence they fall squarely in line with GCHQ and friends. It's really one of the worst locations he could choose, right after the US and Britain.

I agree that Snowden is better off in HK, I was just responding to the comment WRT Kim Dotcom.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#125

Post by adventured »

"Nobody stands to win by taking decisive action on Snowden, so my guess, based on years of living in Hong Kong, is that both Beijing and Hong Kong will avoid doing so, which heightens the possiblity of a long, long court process."

That depends on how badly the US wants him. If they want him badly enough, they'll buy him from China with an offering big enough to create a winner. That would be trivial for the US to do - they could have Snowden back in a few days - but the price might be very high.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#126

Post by anigbrowl »

corford wrote: post #124
anigbrowl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For rape, not espionage.

Alleged rape.

Rape is the offense that they wish to charge him with. I'm not pronouncing on his guilt or innocence, just on what it is that they're attempting to extradite him for.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#127

Post by alexqgb »

rayiner wrote: post #81
msg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martin Luther King didn't live in a world where we imprison innocent men in legal limbo without trial or habeas corpus, or where we officially sanctioned torture and the oubliette. He could trust that he would be vindicated by the justice system. The whole point of the Snowden story is that the government is not trustworthy in this era. I would not trust the US government to give him justice any more than they did Aa…

Its this sort of uneducated, a-historical crap that makes it impossible to read HN lately. If you think the government was less scary back then, in the grip of anti-communist paranoia, you're insane, deluded, or just plain uneducated. Saying that MLK could count on a fair shake from a justice system that didn't give any minority a fair shake back then, much less political radicals, is the height of ridiculousness.

The point isn't that the government has suddenly gone bad, but that the specific nature of the badness has changed very substantially and fairly recently. Snowden's choices may be unprecedented, but so is the situation that the rest of us are facing. His greatest fear (which he was very explicit about) is that this new and very unsettling state of affairs would go unrecognized, even after he made his revelations.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#128

Post by rld »

> Budding spies and others of a paranoid nature can buy a couple of those SIM cards to swap in and out of their (unlocked) phones for $10 in any 7-11, no registration, no questions asked (try doing that in India or Argentina!)

Argentine here, you can buy SIM cards literally everywhere. Vendors will even sell them to you on trains.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#129

Post by alexqgb »

akg_67 wrote: post #67
Apocryphon wrote: post #35

I've been thinking of alternative destinations. New Zealand, home of exile Kim Dotcom, could work. But what about Sweden? Aren't they very neutral? Or Switzerland, the nation that's synonymous with neutrality?

I don't believe there is any country in the world, except Russia and China, that will not kowtow to US when pressured. Snowden made a very smart choice by going to HK.

Iran is another. They've been suffering sanctions for years. And I do mean suffering. Which is not to say it's a smart place to go, just that its resistance to American hegemony is well established.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#130

Post by adventured »

gbog wrote: post #84
jsnk wrote: post #8

Fourth point about Hong Kong being under China probably has a significant effect that public cannot know about to full extent. It's not a outright conspiracy to believe that there's a largely hidden but real power struggle between US and China. China probably likes the fact that Snowden has brought NSA and US government into public scrutiny and they are probably plotting a way to make the best out of it.

I don't think so. China has so many problems, it's government always preferred the status quo, anything new like this is considered a threat to political stability: imagine if a few Chinese decided to go Snowden way?

China can and does easily suppress dissent. They love opportunities to jab back at the US regarding human rights issues. That's worth a lot more than the very very very small risk that Snowden presents toward inspiring emulators.
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