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Linux has better hardware support than OS X

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81–90 of 218 posts

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#81
post #62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Ingo has pretty much shitcanned any efforts to progress power saving support for the forseeable future, so don't expect things to improve.

Any good links to read up on this?

There's an LWN article: http://lwn.net/Articles/552885/

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#82
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't buy the version with the OS installed, then it's not the same comparison. When you buy a MacBook, OS X is already installed and working. I don't know a whole lot about the Dells, but isn't the same true otherwise?

I bought a Macbook Pro with OSX 10.8 already installed, and I am pretty sure I will not have the same problems as sciurus if I buy 10.9. Dell could offer support for 13.04, or maybe Canonical could work to better support one of the few laptops out there with ubuntu on it out of the box.

I bought an XPS 13 with Ubuntu 12.04 installed. I had absolutely no issues when I upgraded to 13.04.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#83
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a Macbook Pro with OSX 10.8 already installed, and I am pretty sure I will not have the same problems as sciurus if I buy 10.9. Dell could offer support for 13.04, or maybe Canonical could work to better support one of the few laptops out there with ubuntu on it out of the box.

If a Dell was purchased with Ubuntu pre-installed, I'm sure that a `sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` wouldn't bork during installation either.

I think you mis-read sciurus' comment. He said that installing ubuntu 13.04 caused all sorts of problems. Are you saying he would not have had those problems if he did 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade'?

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#84
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Dell was purchased with Ubuntu pre-installed, I'm sure that a `sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` wouldn't bork during installation either.

I think you mis-read sciurus' comment. He said that installing ubuntu 13.04 caused all sorts of problems. Are you saying he would not have had those problems if he did 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade'?

Yes, being 'unable to boot the installer' would never happen, by definition.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#85
post #13

Linux "supports" most of current hardware by using generic drivers offering minimal functionality for any given device. The device will work, but not any of it's non-standard or advanced features. E.g. want to switch DPI in your new shiny Logitech mouse? Or customize behavior of it's buttons? Nope, sorry, not supported. I, for one, do not consider this a supported hardware, even if basic functionality is there.

Actually, that's funny with my Logitech Trackball (4-button) mouse I've actually had a much better experience (performance/usability) than running the same mouse on Windows or OSX.

Got draglock and better scrolling (horizontal and vertical), plus you can combine button clicks and key bindings to do whatever you like, something you can't do on Windoze or McMacs ;-)

It's a fallacy that things don't work on Linux. It's also a fallacy that life is better on the other side of the fence since the user is subjected to an environment of passive non-learning -- which rears it's head when the provided GUI comes up short (oh no, now what do I do?)

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#86
Interesting... because I got a ThinkPad to run Ubuntu on a couple of years ago. And you know what? It was extremely unstable. It would freeze and crash maybe 20 - 25% of the time I disconnected an external display, and from time to time at random, for no good reason.

The multi-display support is also broken (the smaller display takes on same dimensions as the larger, with hidden areas of the desktop), but that's another matter.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#87

People use OSX cause it has really good hardware which has good enough software support for the things more people do. I am aware this is probably going to sound along the lines of groupthink, but if there are a lot of people doing this, there must be a good reason . In my case (and I suspect the case for a lot of folks based on conversations within the place I work at), the sweet spot for OSX is that the hardware is…

"MBP-equivalent Thinkpads are typically more expensive"

More expensive than what? MBP with 2.8Ghz, 16GB runs at least $3K.

With the exception of the screen, hardware-wise Thinkpads and Dell Precisions are far superior to MBPs. Max 16GB RAM and can't even stick an i7 extreme CPU in MBPs.

Whoops, 17" MBP, sorry, that's been discontinued -- as a Mac user you have NO choice; the hardware and software offerings are fixed in stone.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#88
post #68

This is silly. Although I'm sure it's gotten much better since I regularly used Linux on the desktop, you always had to do some amount of due diligence about what hardware worked well with it and what hardware didn't. For example, because I use OS X, I can go to any store, purchase my choice of Lexmark printer, and be on my merry way with a minimal amount of checking. The fact that I have to know that there's a "refe…

You have a valid point, but theres another side to it. The hardware that works great are the hardware that developers tend to use. The worst low-end lexmarks which are barely good enough for one cartridge cycle is not something any computer enthusiast/programmer would spend time on makeing work. Since I switched to linux on my laptop 100%, around 2003 somewhere, I always tried to pick hardware which is professional g…

Sure. But still, let's imagine I did professional work that required professional hardware. Further, let's imagine that Linux supported my current setup perfectly.

My setup won't be my setup forever. Maybe some new hardware comes out and I want to experiment with it. Will it work with Linux? Will the person making that hardware have Linux in mind when they're building it? If my current hardware breaks, will it be easy for me to find suitable replacement quickly? As in same-day quickly?

Is memorizing the list of "professional-grade" hardware that works with Linux -- or perhaps just the list of exceptions if that's the smaller list -- worth my time as a professional?

For you, the answer to all these questions might be "yes" or even "yes, given how much I care about using Linux for other reasons." That's great.

However, the mere fact that one has to consider these questions increases the cost of adoption. It shouldn't therefore be a surprise that fewer people use the platform as a result or that people point out this frustrates them. Maybe they even use tricky phrases like "hardware support" which can mean many things to many people to describe their frustration.

If you want to think about it algorithmically, maybe try this picture. You have two points A and B on a map with varied terrain and a path-finding algorithm. You have N seconds to get from A to B, including the amount of time it takes to find a path.

You won't be able to take fastest path if it takes longer than N seconds to find that path -- by that point you'll be out of time. Instead, the naïve solution would be to take the first path P where the time searching for P plus the time to traverse P is Those "N - M" seconds are really important in consumer psychology. If you've found multiple options and weighed them you'll feel much more comfortable in your decision. That comfort translates into confidence in the underlying platform.

On Linux the "time searching for P" is much larger than OS X, but the original article is pretending as if it's only the existence of a fast-enough path that matters. It's not, especially if the time to find the right path dwarfs the amount of time you have to spend on the problem or it results in you being able to weigh as many options as you would on another platform.

For me, personally, as someone who values his own attention very, very highly, my threshold for "time spent searching for P" is incredibly low.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#89
post #55

Did not read. How is this news? People run Linux on their alarm clocks whereas OSX is made to work with the few different hardwares Apple makes.

Because you didn't read, you missed the entire point of the article, which directly addresses your comment.

Well, now that I did and I want my 10 minutes back. I disagree though with you there about this article dirctly addressing my comment. It directly addresses a strawman argument the author pulls out of air in the beginning. I think everyone agrees that Linux supports more hardware and OSX supports less. And by doing this they can support in a better way. Don't you?

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#90
"Or are you dual-booting it on your hand-built gaming rig?"

Actually I am. Despite the fact you can get hardware (motherboards, RAM, drives, etc.) from many different manufacturers the "core" hardware pretty much follows a set of strict standards. Ever since Apple moved to Intel CPU based hardware they also made OS X compatible with those same standards (AHCI, ACPI, etc.). Sure, you might have the odd issue with certain configurations but in general modern Intel based desktop PCs are fairly straightforward to run OS X on.

The same applies for the Linux Kernel, except it supports far more standards and architectures then OS X.

But anyway I suppose my point is that the OS will pretty much run in most cases. However, your non-standard additional hardware (wireless adapters, your funky magic PCIe card, etc.) that requires drivers is not really because Linux, Windows or OS X does not support that hardware but rather the manufacturer of said devices choice not to support that OS. Don't complain that Linux or whatever does not support your hardware but rather complain that the manufacturer chose not to support Linux or use some kind of common standard.

Sure, common hardware or hardware that follows a standard might have a driver written by Microsoft or the linux kernel devs but most of the time the driver is written by those who created the hardware. For example it would be silly to blame Microsoft saying Windows does not support a Nvidia graphics card if Nvidia never released Windows drivers for that card. Likewise it would be silly to blame Apple if I bought some TV tuner, or similar PCI(e) card, and found it did not work in my Mac Pro.

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