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The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

money.msn.com

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Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#71

I love it. An IRS audit based on trawling public data is more likely to wake up the moronic "I've got nothing to hide" clowns than any total surveillance by the NSA or the massive cyberstalking by Facebook, Google e.a.

> wake up the moronic "I've got nothing to hide" clowns

I take objection to this. The NSA stuff is indeed questionable. Reading your gmail, that's very clearly a breach. But the IRS does have legitimate interest in knowing about when money changes hands. It's kind of their job.

Let's take away some of the linkbait and media sensationalism about this article. IRS already gets a privileged amount of information on the "usual" way in which money changes hands. Bank transfers, stock sales, dividends, your paycheck, interest - they're getting that info already. So how might social media fit into this? I say if a modern day Al Capone figures out a way to launder money based on Farmville credits, yes, I want the IRS to know about it. If sites like Facebook are introducing things like payment platforms, I don't see why the IRS should not be notified that money is changing hands, the same way they are notified for other transactions. That's not the same as reading your messages.

Which brings me to another point:

> An IRS audit based on trawling public data

A fluffy MSN article about what IRS might be doing is not the same as evidence that this is actually happening. If someone has evidence of innocent people being subjected to this in any substantial number, then please, let them come forward. Absent that kind of evidence I don't find it very believable.

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#72
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the status quo but doesn't address parent's argument. If corporations want the same rights as natural persons in one area of the law, it would be cherry picking to want to keep a privileged position in another, e.g. tax law. A good argument against parent would need to attack the premise that cherry picking privileges is bad.

Your argument is a fair point, cherry picking privileges is quite ridiculous. That said, it makes absolutely zero sense to compare corporation taxes and personal taxes. The dynamics are just totally different. I can see nothing good in equating personal and corporation taxes. My personal opinion is that both personal and corporate tax legislation is more or less flawed and that the(effective) tax rates probably need…

Obviously I am not an economist, so I know zero about corporate finance, but do we really need to complicate the tax issue as our present tax laws have become? (I once handled accounts payable for a local government entity - I quickly transferred to an IT position so that's all I know beyond balancing my own budget) Why won't a more simple approach be workable?

I favor a tax based on percentage of gain. If a Mega-Corp makes $30Bn a year, and I only make $30K, we each pay accordingly, at the same percentage rate.

Of course there would be a great debate about exactly what that percentage should be, but it should be equitable and not too onerous.

Why not hold corporate entities to the same standard as individuals?

Isn't the USA supposed to be about equality? (Remember, freedom & equal rights for all?)

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 16th Amendment (income tax) was only instituted in 1913 The 16th Amendment was instituted in 1913, but the first US federal income taxes were adopted during the Civil War, and the first peacetime federal income taxes were adopted in the 1894. The 16th Amendment wasn't passed to give Congress the power to collect taxes on income, it was passed mainly to expand Congress well-established existing power in that dom…

It wasn't well established. Income tax had been found to be unconstitutional. An "excise tax", which was the same thing, was implemented as a workaround. The income tax amendment eliminated the unconstitutionality decisively and was championed by the Prohibition movement.

> Income tax had been found to be unconstitutional.

No, it hadn't. As I stated earlier (and cited the case in which the decision was made), tax on certain forms of income (specifically, income from sales of property) was ruled to be a direct tax requiring apportionment under the Constitution.

> An "excise tax", which was the same thing, was implemented as a workaround.

Presumably, this is a reference to the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, which wasn't the same thing, as the Court had explicitly previously ruled that a tax on corporations that was an excise for the privilege of operating a corporation, even when assessed by income, and even when the income included income from sales of property, was not a "direct tax" under the Constitution and thus did not require apportionment.

> The income tax amendment eliminated the unconstitutionality

...of Congress taxing income from sale of property without apportionment, yes. That was the problem with the tax act that had been struck down -- the fact that it included taxes on that one particular source of income in a non-apportioned tax.

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#74
post #59
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swedish article on the matter: http://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/article16839634.ab I have no idea if Skatteverket (IRS equivalent) were right in their decision but the guy did lose in the first court instance. Also: If the Facebook page was public and Skatteverket were questioning the legitimacy of the 'business purchase', why shouldn't they check the page? Basing the decision on only one status update seems a bi…

They weren't questioning or investigating, they outright fined based only on that status report. Guilty until proven innocent.

They probably wouldn't have looked the page unless they were auditing him. He found their decision unfair and appealed it but lost in court, so at least one instance considers Skatteverket's claims legitimate.

Now I have less faith in the lower courts than I should but it does bring legitimacy to Skatteverket's decision.

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#75
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a kludge that does more harm than good. Every other western country has ACLU-like organizations with comparable or better standing, and without the personhood nonsense.

I don't understand what you mean by "kludge". Either people who form legal entities retain their individual rights regardless of what laws are passed or they don't. That's all "corporate personhood" is. It doesn't mean their corporation gets a vote or can collect food stamps. And I'll put U.S. free speech absolutism over most of Western Europe any day.

> Either people who form legal entities retain their individual rights regardless of what laws are passed or they don't.

That's not what corporate personhood is. Before corporate personhood became the law of the land, people retained all their individual rights despite forming legal entities. Neither does losing those rights happen in any other western country that does not recognize corporate personhood, btw.

> It doesn't mean their corporation gets a vote or can collect food stamps.

Oh, it does mean a corporation can lobby, which is very close to voting (and statistically, way more powerful than voting).

And it means a corporation can be found guilty of criminal negligence or even criminal behaviour, and yet not a single natural person is guilty. If you look at e.g. Germany, Sweden, or Norway - if there's criminal behaviour, the person responsible for it gets indicted EVEN if they did it as an officer of a corporation.

It's a kludge because, because for the small benefit it gives (allowing a legal entity to own property, which was solved in simpler ways all around the world), it lets the natural persons in control of a corporation evade criminal liability, and allows them to legally bribe, sorry, lobby with a force that they cannot without controlling said corporation -- at least not legally.

> And I'll put U.S. free speech absolutism over most of Western Europe any day.

Care to explain what you are talking about here, compared to (e.g.) Germany, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland? If you say "most", I guess at least ONE of these countries fall in your "Western Europe" group?

Did you, or do you, have experience living in western europe and/or the US, that you base that on?

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#76

Taxes are to high for the services provided. Laws are mostly written by lobbyists for large corporations. Now the IRS is going to use "big data" systems -using input data from Google, Facebook,etc - provided by profit driven vendors to enforce this treachery on the middle class and upper middle class b/c they pay the highest tax rates. Its kind of like red-light cameras. Companies who provide the red-light camera tec…

You'll have to renounce your US citizenship to escape the long arm of the IRS. In practice this requires gaining an alternative one first if you're not a dual citizen.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/04/29/americans-abr...

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#77
post #64
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just standby for the next travesty. What's the specific travesty here? The IRS already looks at and analyzes your private financial data both as reported by you and others and this is generally considered acceptable and a necessary part of them doing their job. So say now they noticed you reported $20k in gross annual income but are buying Ferraris on eBay. It seems pretty reasonable to assume, from that piece of pub…

If congress would simplify the tax code, it would be both harder to cheat and vastly easier for the honest to pay their taxes. And the IRS wouldn't need to snoop into everyone's life.

These seem like orthogonal issues, though. Even with the most simplistic tax code conceivable (say, a flat tax) a tax authority would have to examine your self-reported financial data and financial data relating to you reported by third parties.

And if you're suspected of misrepresentation, they'd still have good reason to go rummaging through your publicly or legally accessible info to make their case. These steps appear independent of the details of the tax code.

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#78
post #64
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just standby for the next travesty. What's the specific travesty here? The IRS already looks at and analyzes your private financial data both as reported by you and others and this is generally considered acceptable and a necessary part of them doing their job. So say now they noticed you reported $20k in gross annual income but are buying Ferraris on eBay. It seems pretty reasonable to assume, from that piece of pub…

If congress would simplify the tax code, it would be both harder to cheat and vastly easier for the honest to pay their taxes. And the IRS wouldn't need to snoop into everyone's life.

No simplified tax code proposal I've read would eliminate the problem of people doing cash transactions under the table, or "loaning" themselves a house and treating that as a business asset.

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#79

This is an older article. One of the key takeaways is that Congress in 2008 gave the IRS the capability to dive into your personal affairs online in ways that even the justice department can't (without a warrant). They only need to view you as somebody of interest. Better still, the exact nature of all this -- wait for it -- is a secret. The long-term trend here is pretty clear. Congress has the Big Data hammer out,…

Last I read the IRS is not part of the legislative branch, the NSA being part of the DOD may not be as well. Which mostly seems to be true from the stonewalling both agencies are able to do in regards to Congress. You have to wonder, if an agency of the government is not answerable to Congress who represents us, then why do they exist?

Both the IRS and NSA are part of the Executive branch.

Re: The IRS has upgraded its technology to track virtually everything you do online

#80
post #78
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If congress would simplify the tax code, it would be both harder to cheat and vastly easier for the honest to pay their taxes. And the IRS wouldn't need to snoop into everyone's life.

No simplified tax code proposal I've read would eliminate the problem of people doing cash transactions under the table, or "loaning" themselves a house and treating that as a business asset.

The Fair Tax would take care of most of that. Any transaction with a business would have sales tax. There are no write offs, so the business asset would not fly, neither would be buying Ferraris.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=HowFairTaxWo...

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