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Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

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Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#71

Post by jasonkolb »

asifjamil wrote: post #13

I'm actually a PhD student studying this exact technology in Germany. I can say without a doubt that this type of stimulation has proven potential in enhancing cognitive functions (if proper protocol and safety aspects are respected). This is a really exciting field which I think will really explode in the next few years once the montage and paradigms are optimized (which is exactly what I'm working on!)

My father in law had a stroke about a year back and I looked into this to see if anyone was doing any research into stimulating parts of the brain which were harmed. I wasn't able to find much. I'm curious if you've ever seen anyone studying therapeutic uses for this technology?

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#72

Post by burningion »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #68
yathern wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to shed more information on this? How well did it work? Were the effects long term or temporary?

Sure. Ask away. It worked extremely well. I feel that I typically have a very hard time concentrating on learning new skills due to day-to-day constant context switching (I'm a Sysadmin/Devops by day). I use Modafinil to focus and tCDS to boost my skills acquisition/retention rate. I haven't done any sort of study on myself to measure control vs tCDS time, but I definitely "feel" an increased rate of moving up the sk…

What was the process for getting a source for Modafinil, and what makes you sure you were getting a net benefit, beyond just the ability to focus?

For example, one of the potential drawbacks from focus drugs is that you lose creativity. What makes you sure your were getting a net win?

I'm very skeptical that there is really such a thing as a free lunch when it comes to synthetic cognitive enhancements.

That being said, I do believe physical fitness, diet, and adequate sleep seem to be massive cognitive enhancers when correctly applied.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#73

Post by rmc »

grannyg00se wrote: post #44
larrys wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade " Serious question. If the friction is removed (illegality is friction) and this process is legal and available what will prevent people from deteriorating into 24/7 pleasure seekers (much like some people get addicted and spend their life in crack houses?)

But without the illegality and high cost, it's not so bad. You get a bunch of people hanging out high without all the robbery, extortion, prostitution, and organized crime. A bunch of harmless pleasure seekers doesn't seem like a major issue without all that other stuff.

Alcohol is legal and not high cost. So either alcohol is different from those drugs (if so how?) or its very similar, which means this drugs will have the same ills as alcohol.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#74

Post by rmc »

DanBC wrote: post #35

> Mr. Siever treats himself for chronic depression, reporting equally striking results. I wish they wouldn't report such anecdota so strongly. Siever is unlikely to have conducted controlled double-blind studies on himself, so he can't know it's the tCDS doing anything or not.

Exactly, it could be the placebo effect.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#75

Post by rmc »

rosser wrote: post #49
guylhem wrote: post #3

"Scientists call for more regulation (ie more grant $) before the devices is sold to the public, film at 11." The only problem is the DIY crowd. A 9V battery is not exactly under regulation. What people do with their body is their problem.

What people do with their body is their problem. Tell that to the people behind drug laws, and abortion laws, and sodomy laws, and, and, and...

Or trans people, who have to jump through hoops to get hormones or surgery.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#76

Post by yathern »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #68
yathern wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to shed more information on this? How well did it work? Were the effects long term or temporary?

Sure. Ask away. It worked extremely well. I feel that I typically have a very hard time concentrating on learning new skills due to day-to-day constant context switching (I'm a Sysadmin/Devops by day). I use Modafinil to focus and tCDS to boost my skills acquisition/retention rate. I haven't done any sort of study on myself to measure control vs tCDS time, but I definitely "feel" an increased rate of moving up the sk…

Very interesting. Had you learned any language / had experience trying to learn a new language before this? How is your current knowledge of French, Spanish and Russian, and how long did it take to reach that level? As someone who has an incredibly hard time learning languages, this intrigues me greatly (not that I'm necessarily interested in trying this)

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#77

Post by juskrey »

pkroll wrote: post #14
juskrey wrote: post #6

If something can make your body better without adverse effects, it is already there. You are not smarter than 3.5 billions of life evolution, period.

I get what you're saying, and basically agree. But... A) how much of an adverse effect? And B) Plenty of medical procedures can "make your body better without adverse effects" (at least not as adverse as the medical condition continuing on unchecked).

Ah, at least. Yeah, medical procedures can make you better. In case your condition is acute. But we have no single medicine that will make healthy human better for a lifetime. Well, single medicated "you" MAY outlive "you" without a medicine, but that is a play of statistics, in general there is no force to tell ya if you will suffer instead. Even a vaccine is a simulation of acute condition, but the key for this effect is single stimulation.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#78

Post by toomuchtodo »

burningion wrote: post #72
toomuchtodo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Ask away. It worked extremely well. I feel that I typically have a very hard time concentrating on learning new skills due to day-to-day constant context switching (I'm a Sysadmin/Devops by day). I use Modafinil to focus and tCDS to boost my skills acquisition/retention rate. I haven't done any sort of study on myself to measure control vs tCDS time, but I definitely "feel" an increased rate of moving up the sk…

What was the process for getting a source for Modafinil, and what makes you sure you were getting a net benefit, beyond just the ability to focus? For example, one of the potential drawbacks from focus drugs is that you lose creativity. What makes you sure your were getting a net win? I'm very skeptical that there is really such a thing as a free lunch when it comes to synthetic cognitive enhancements. That being sai…

www.reddit.com/r/nootropics

I selected a provider (who ships from India) based on reviews from this sub-reddit. They accept my payments in bitcoins.

I haven't noticed a loss in creativity, but I think creativity in itself is something extremely difficult to measure or quantify. I attempted to join experiments being done by several labs across the country (with regards to tCDS), and was declined by all. It was then I went on to do it myself.

I agree with your last statement completely. I work no more than 8 hours a day, get at least 7-8 hours of sleep per night now, and eat in a much more healthy fashion.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#79

Post by jholman »

msluyter wrote: post #9
ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

I am convinced that at some point some smart sod will figure out how to create a 'high' by using something along the lines of this. Put on a headband, flick the switch, and blam! high as a kite. Turn the switch off, and back to being sober. When that happens, the world will change in a very unpredictable way. Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade will suddenly have no where to go. All…

I think what you've just described is Larry Niven's "wirehead." In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, a wirehead is someone who has been fitted with an electronic brain implant (called a "droud" in the stories) to stimulate the pleasure centres of their brain. In the Known Space universe, wireheading is the most addictive habit known (Louis Wu is the only given example of a recovered addict), and wireheads usually di…

Also explored at length in God Is An Iron, a short story by Spider Robinson, extended into the novel Mindkiller. Unlike in Ringworld, where wireheading/tasps are a MacGuffin, they're the central plot point in GIAI/Mindkiller.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#80

Post by eurleif »

glenra wrote: post #51
larrys wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade " Serious question. If the friction is removed (illegality is friction) and this process is legal and available what will prevent people from deteriorating into 24/7 pleasure seekers (much like some people get addicted and spend their life in crack houses?)

Where cocaine was legal, people used the cocoa leaf to make a tea they drank all the time, the way we drink coffee or caffeinated soda. When heroin was legal (from the Bayer company!), addicts took it in pill form and it caused no particular social or financial or health problems - the primary negative effect of long-term heroin use is constipation. The vast majority of the harm illegal drugs do to people is due to t…

>people used the cocoa leaf to make a tea they drank all the time, the way we drink coffee or caffeinated soda.

Coca leaf tea is one thing. What about crack? Don't say it would never have been invented without criminalization; everything is invented eventually.

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