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Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

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Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#51

Post by glenra »

larrys wrote: post #36
ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

I am convinced that at some point some smart sod will figure out how to create a 'high' by using something along the lines of this. Put on a headband, flick the switch, and blam! high as a kite. Turn the switch off, and back to being sober. When that happens, the world will change in a very unpredictable way. Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade will suddenly have no where to go. All…

"Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade " Serious question. If the friction is removed (illegality is friction) and this process is legal and available what will prevent people from deteriorating into 24/7 pleasure seekers (much like some people get addicted and spend their life in crack houses?)

Where cocaine was legal, people used the cocoa leaf to make a tea they drank all the time, the way we drink coffee or caffeinated soda. When heroin was legal (from the Bayer company!), addicts took it in pill form and it caused no particular social or financial or health problems - the primary negative effect of long-term heroin use is constipation.

The vast majority of the harm illegal drugs do to people is due to the drugs being illegal; it has nothing to do with characteristics inherent to the chemistry of the drugs.

(I recommend the book Licit and Illicit Drugs. You can read it here online: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cumen... )

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#52

Post by pjscott »

juskrey wrote: post #6

If something can make your body better without adverse effects, it is already there. You are not smarter than 3.5 billions of life evolution, period.

Here's a much more detailed discussion of this idea, and possible loopholes:

http://www.gwern.net/Drug%20heuristics

For example, evolution could easily have failed to make enhancements that would burn too many calories, because food used to be scarce.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#53

Post by RobotCaleb »

msluyter wrote: post #9
ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

I am convinced that at some point some smart sod will figure out how to create a 'high' by using something along the lines of this. Put on a headband, flick the switch, and blam! high as a kite. Turn the switch off, and back to being sober. When that happens, the world will change in a very unpredictable way. Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade will suddenly have no where to go. All…

I think what you've just described is Larry Niven's "wirehead." In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, a wirehead is someone who has been fitted with an electronic brain implant (called a "droud" in the stories) to stimulate the pleasure centres of their brain. In the Known Space universe, wireheading is the most addictive habit known (Louis Wu is the only given example of a recovered addict), and wireheads usually di…

For a slightly different take on it, see the Red Dwarf Novel "Better than Life"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Than_Life

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#54

Post by RobotCaleb »

will_work4tears wrote: post #27
Ygg2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be killed by a 9V battery? How? Not from the charge I hope (not sarcastic).

There's a link to the darwinawards site on the subreddit. Apparently it was a Navy service member that stuck the electrodes into his fingers and the current traveled through the bloodstream across his heart. Sounds like an urban legend, but if you read the back and forth on it, it's rather interesting.

I believe you have to provide a path that would go through the heart. Simply piercing the same finger with both electrodes shouldn't do much to the heart.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#56

Post by networked »

larrys wrote: post #36
ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

I am convinced that at some point some smart sod will figure out how to create a 'high' by using something along the lines of this. Put on a headband, flick the switch, and blam! high as a kite. Turn the switch off, and back to being sober. When that happens, the world will change in a very unpredictable way. Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade will suddenly have no where to go. All…

"Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade " Serious question. If the friction is removed (illegality is friction) and this process is legal and available what will prevent people from deteriorating into 24/7 pleasure seekers (much like some people get addicted and spend their life in crack houses?)

"[T]hough we may not want to be wireheaded now, our wireheaded selves would probably prefer to be wireheaded."

The Less Wrong community has been discussing questions related to wireheading for years now. To get a taste for their discussion on the subject check out the post at http://lesswrong.com/lw/1oc/you_cannot_be_mistaken_about_not... (where the above quote comes from) and everything it links to.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#57

Post by toomuchtodo »

asifjamil wrote: post #13

I'm actually a PhD student studying this exact technology in Germany. I can say without a doubt that this type of stimulation has proven potential in enhancing cognitive functions (if proper protocol and safety aspects are respected). This is a really exciting field which I think will really explode in the next few years once the montage and paradigms are optimized (which is exactly what I'm working on!)

As an IT professional with enough EE knowledge to be dangerous, I've used a home made version to increase the rate at which I learn foreign languages.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

gtani wrote: post #55

I'm no scientist but anecdotal TDCS had me... concerned induce phosphenes by accident -- blue white flashes in the entire visual field, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3525744

When it occurs, its not as bad as it sounds. This is my own experience though. YMMV.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#59

Post by toomuchtodo »

ultramundane8 wrote: post #8

I may run into a lot of experts (from multiple fields) here on HN with strong opinions to the contrary, but here are my two cents. If I could double my cognitive ability for 5 years, then die from an unknown complication with this type of therapy, I would do it without blinking an eye.

I'm both a tCDS user and a Modafinil user. I'm 30, and don't mind trading life expectancy for higher cognitive function.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#60

Post by [deleted] »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
gtani wrote: post #55

I'm no scientist but anecdotal TDCS had me... concerned induce phosphenes by accident -- blue white flashes in the entire visual field, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3525744

When it occurs, its not as bad as it sounds. This is my own experience though. YMMV.

[deleted]
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