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Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

news.nationalpost.com

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Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#41

Post by jlgreco »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

I am convinced that at some point some smart sod will figure out how to create a 'high' by using something along the lines of this. Put on a headband, flick the switch, and blam! high as a kite. Turn the switch off, and back to being sober. When that happens, the world will change in a very unpredictable way. Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade will suddenly have no where to go. All…

I don't know. That is basically the concept around synthehol from Star Trek, but I have never been convinced that such a substance would actually be as good as alcohol. Being able to easily "turn it off" does not seem particularly desirable to me, part of the allure of alcohol is a submission of sorts. Making the decision to not be able to make rational decisions, with no tap-out.

Edit: Figure out how to do it with other sorts of drugs, like non-recreational stimulants, and I would be all over it. Caffeine that I can turn off when I get home? Yes please.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#42

Post by senorprogrammer »

DanBC wrote: post #35

> Mr. Siever treats himself for chronic depression, reporting equally striking results. I wish they wouldn't report such anecdota so strongly. Siever is unlikely to have conducted controlled double-blind studies on himself, so he can't know it's the tCDS doing anything or not.

Agreed. It's just as feasible that the beneficial effect is derived from his sense of taking control over his condition rather than being controlled by it (effectively feeling like an active rather than passive participant in his depression). I make no claim that this is actually the reason, only to provide one feasible, untested alternative theory.

Further scientific study in this field should be very interesting indeed.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#43

Post by waterlesscloud »

ketralnis wrote: post #21
juskrey wrote: post #6

If something can make your body better without adverse effects, it is already there. You are not smarter than 3.5 billions of life evolution, period.

> You are not smarter than 3.5 billions of life evolution That makes a great bumper sticker, but I don't buy it. Evolution isn't directed. Humans are the product of something that happened to survive in some very specific circumstances. Lots of other things did too: sloths, flies, sea sponges. I'd rather be me than a sea sponge. Maybe there's a potential X that would rather be an X than me. There are no evolutionary…

A bumper sticker on your vehicle that carries you at least an order of magnitude faster than evolution can carry you?

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#44

Post by grannyg00se »

larrys wrote: post #36
ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

I am convinced that at some point some smart sod will figure out how to create a 'high' by using something along the lines of this. Put on a headband, flick the switch, and blam! high as a kite. Turn the switch off, and back to being sober. When that happens, the world will change in a very unpredictable way. Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade will suddenly have no where to go. All…

"Billions, perhaps trillions of dollars that are part of the drug trade " Serious question. If the friction is removed (illegality is friction) and this process is legal and available what will prevent people from deteriorating into 24/7 pleasure seekers (much like some people get addicted and spend their life in crack houses?)

But without the illegality and high cost, it's not so bad. You get a bunch of people hanging out high without all the robbery, extortion, prostitution, and organized crime.

A bunch of harmless pleasure seekers doesn't seem like a major issue without all that other stuff.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#45

Post by kunai »

The scientific method has advanced so far in the past century that any new "breakthrough" without proper empirical evidence and due process of science makes me feel like it's just quack science.

Forget about the journals, forget about peer review, just have evidence. Anecdota have proven to be very unreliable in critical testing scenarios.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#46

Post by [deleted] »

gwern wrote: post #26
ultramundane8 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like a form of faith. I don't share it. Is there literally no potential for artificial selection to outpace natural selection? I know this thinking can be dangerous and contains serious ethical problems, but the factual side of your statement I just can't agree with. Not without more to convince me.

> Is there literally no potential for artificial selection to outpace natural selection? Of course there's potential and loopholes but the basic observation (dubbed 'Algernon's law' by some; I've written an entire essay on the topic: http://www.gwern.net/Drug%20heuristics ) seems sound for tDCS: it's such a trivial intervention that it shouldn't work, which suggests there must be some catch. The catch may well be tri…

[deleted]

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#47

Post by glenra »

DanBC wrote: post #35

> Mr. Siever treats himself for chronic depression, reporting equally striking results. I wish they wouldn't report such anecdota so strongly. Siever is unlikely to have conducted controlled double-blind studies on himself, so he can't know it's the tCDS doing anything or not.

You don't actually need a controlled double-blind study to notice a medical effect, IF the effect is sufficiently strong and consistent. Traditional "controlled double-blind studies" are nice to have, but are much too likely to accidentally reject good medicines and medical treatments of the sort that might be discovered and confirmed via this sort of personal experimentation. (Yes, false positives are bad, but false negatives are bad too!)

The era of personalized medicine is just beginning and these sort of devices seem unusually well-suited for that sort of approach.

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#49

Post by rosser »

guylhem wrote: post #3

"Scientists call for more regulation (ie more grant $) before the devices is sold to the public, film at 11." The only problem is the DIY crowd. A 9V battery is not exactly under regulation. What people do with their body is their problem.

What people do with their body is their problem.

Tell that to the people behind drug laws, and abortion laws, and sodomy laws, and, and, and...

Re: Do It Yourself Brain Stimulation has Scientists Worried

#50

Post by drivers99 »

ultramundane8 wrote: post #34
zem wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would be deeply ironic if, with your doubled cognitive ability, you realised that that was a bad bargain.

Haha, yes it would. But likely my ability would at least enable me to convince others of this discovery!

This is speculative, but it has been suggested that some people's thinking is so advanced that we can't understand what they are trying to do. [1] So it could be the case that what you try to convey once you reach that advanced state isn't comprehensible by normal people.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Genius_Theory

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