Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This has come up in the past on HN. As I understand it the newspaper story is bull. Pretty much. The same effect that causes stars to twinkle limits the resolution of space-based spy satellites imagery of the ground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_seeing
That's for distant stars though, isn't it? I mean, just with Google Maps you can see the mirrors on a car. Newsprint isn't that much of a step up.
NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
51–60 of 138 posts
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#52I have a question that perhaps a cryptography expert could answer for me. My father told me when he was young, he visited Oak Ridge National Labs on a trip, and while there, they told him they had satellites that could read the print on a newspaper. At the time, it wasn't classified information; it was just something that nobody knew. Approximately 15-20 years later, satellites with that capability became well-known.…
Ok, so even if you select a key length of something very large which depends not only on bytes of the key but also the encryption algorithm as well. For a 4096 bit key that would be 1.0443888814131525066917527107166e+1233 combinations, assuming someone tried to brute force this at 100000 checks per second (a low estimate) it would take roughly 1.655867708988382335571652572800330388413185326368886003... × 10^1220 years to crack on average assuming the birthday paradox.
2^4096 / 2 / 100000 / 60 / 60 / 24 / 365
So that's a freaking long time to keep that data secure. Even radically scaling up the brute force attack across the entire world would be akin to boiling the oceans. (Not going to do out the cpu/watt/check number calculation to determine how much energy it would actually take compared to boiling the oceans...)
So are you safe? No because starting in WWII very smart mathematicians were finding ways to crack the algorithms and find patterns and holes in the encryption solutions that made the search space orders of magnitude smaller. So the best thing we can do is select well attacked, well researched but still secure systems, use a good key length and pray (I am not a religious man).
Edit: If you wish to be truly paranoid (don't recommend it), most of the important crypto research has been done by state organizations, this is how AES was selected from a group of submitted designs to NIST. Conversely there are few still secure and well researched algorithms besides AES out there, (Elliptic Curve basically, but those designs are under patents so not widely available etc)
Edit 2: Also wikipedia is a great starting point for understanding, but is not always complete. Still haven't seen it probably explain initialization vector or nounces before.
Oh and one last thing http://xkcd.com/538/
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_size
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_search
https://blogs.oracle.com/dcb/entry/zfs_boils_the_ocean_consu...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_cryptography
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#53I have a question that perhaps a cryptography expert could answer for me. My father told me when he was young, he visited Oak Ridge National Labs on a trip, and while there, they told him they had satellites that could read the print on a newspaper. At the time, it wasn't classified information; it was just something that nobody knew. Approximately 15-20 years later, satellites with that capability became well-known.…
Err, maybe in optics at the time, but you can't just generalize like this. You can't consistently be ahead of everything all the time. More than likely the NSA suffers under Moore's law like everyone else.
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#54> NSA-proof encryption exists. Yup. Except it's not that easy. Let's say that you're using OTR to provide very strong end-to-end encryption for a conversation between yourself and a buddy, Bob. Maybe he's in a hostile area, and you're worried that if his government sniffs his traffic, that he could be executed for speaking to Americans. Data in transit that is intercepted, if configured correctly, is almost certainly…
The way I see it, that's not the greatest danger right now. Instead, we should be worried about the government being able to passively spy on everyone at the same time, by indiscriminately siphoning and analyzing data.
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#55> NSA-proof encryption exists. Yup. Except it's not that easy. Let's say that you're using OTR to provide very strong end-to-end encryption for a conversation between yourself and a buddy, Bob. Maybe he's in a hostile area, and you're worried that if his government sniffs his traffic, that he could be executed for speaking to Americans. Data in transit that is intercepted, if configured correctly, is almost certainly…
One thing widespread encryption would do is make it impossible for the NSA to just slurp the combined textual output of humanity into hadoop and mapreduce over it. They can use "hitting the suspect with a wrench" cryptanalysis on a solo victim, but not on a crowd.
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#56> NSA-proof encryption exists. Yup. Except it's not that easy. Let's say that you're using OTR to provide very strong end-to-end encryption for a conversation between yourself and a buddy, Bob. Maybe he's in a hostile area, and you're worried that if his government sniffs his traffic, that he could be executed for speaking to Americans. Data in transit that is intercepted, if configured correctly, is almost certainly…
The article is in response to a dragnet surveillance program, where everyone's communications are watched and presumably datamined. It's very easy to do this, because nothing is encrypted, and everyone uses services that expose metadata (like who is IM'ing who).
Your comment is entirely true. However, it presents an adversary that doesn't want dragnet, but targeted surveillance. It assumes that Bob will be immediately arrested if his communications become encrypted.
This is not the threat model that we're faced with now. Let's say you and Bob communicate using accounts you've made on random XMPP servers using Tor, and all the messages are encrypted with OTR. Both servers are in the US, and the NSA's metadata database shows E83Gxw@jabber.org sending lots of ciphertext to PAnd9B@jabber.org.
This is "NSA-proof" in that the NSA would not know to link PAnd9B@jabber.org with you using their existing systems. They would have to drastically escalate the cost of their surveillance program with respect to you and Bob to figure out what you're talking about. Unless you really are a political dissident, conspiracy theorist who accidentally discovered the UN's black helicopter program, or radical Islamist, you are now out of the surveillance dragnet.
That is to say, unless the threat model changes, using privacy-enhancing technology will keep your data safe from PRISM and similar dragnet programs.
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This has come up in the past on HN. As I understand it the newspaper story is bull. Pretty much. The same effect that causes stars to twinkle limits the resolution of space-based spy satellites imagery of the ground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_seeing
That's for distant stars though, isn't it? I mean, just with Google Maps you can see the mirrors on a car. Newsprint isn't that much of a step up.
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#58> NSA-proof encryption exists. Yup. Except it's not that easy. Let's say that you're using OTR to provide very strong end-to-end encryption for a conversation between yourself and a buddy, Bob. Maybe he's in a hostile area, and you're worried that if his government sniffs his traffic, that he could be executed for speaking to Americans. Data in transit that is intercepted, if configured correctly, is almost certainly…
Besides , in such an example the government would have to be suspecting bob already on some other grounds. In the case of a despotic regime they probably already have him in prison.
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#59> NSA-proof encryption exists. Yup. Except it's not that easy. Let's say that you're using OTR to provide very strong end-to-end encryption for a conversation between yourself and a buddy, Bob. Maybe he's in a hostile area, and you're worried that if his government sniffs his traffic, that he could be executed for speaking to Americans. Data in transit that is intercepted, if configured correctly, is almost certainly…
Ah, the old rubber-hose cryptanalysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis However, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy OTR does provide "perfect forward secrecy as well as deniable encryption". Doesn't that provide some protection against rubber-hose cryptanalysis?
Re: NSA-proof encryption exists. Why doesn’t anyone use it?
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's for distant stars though, isn't it? I mean, just with Google Maps you can see the mirrors on a car. Newsprint isn't that much of a step up.
Google Maps uses aerial photography from planes for the high-resolution layers of their maps, not satellite imagery.