There is of course, the ultimate litmus test: Would you trust Nixon with this data?
There is of course, the ultimate litmus test: Would you trust Nixon with this data?
Also: "Would you trust J. Edgar Hoover[1] with this data?"
57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
21–30 of 87 posts
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#2251% of all turns are right hand turns.
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#23People seem to forget that democracy and freedom are relatively new to the world. The Soviet Union collapsed 20 years ago, many European countries have been free for less than 40 years. Don't take freedom for granted, it's not the steady state system, tyranny is. I'm sorry to say but a lot of countries will degrade back to authoritarianism within the next 10-20 years due to economy and political problems. They who ca…
I guess our best hope is that at least one country can retain it.
I fail to see how that is our best hope.
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#24Fun science fact: Fear causes people to think irrationally. I find it hard to believe that so many people have jumped out of their wits over this NSA news. After all, there are so many more harder and pressing problems in the world. Global Warming, Child Slavery, Drugs, overpriced health care, mortgage and education loans? But on HN, the most intellectual community I am part of (imo) is so worried about automated pro…
I despise arguments like yours, which logically lead to the claim that only the most important problem in the world should be worried about until it is solved, and then the new most important problem, etc. Not only is it ridiculous on its own, it also requires the arguer to break the very rule he or she is proposing, by spending time worrying about what other people are worrying about, instead of whatever the most im…
I can't remember who said this, but my response to your comment can be best articulated with this quote "all philosophical arguments root from grammatical inconsistencies".
So, I apologize if I made you feel that way. That was not my intent. The only other time I remember such an outcry here at HN was when Steve Jobs passed. A big and depressing event, indeed. I just don't understand why we complain so sparsely about "bigger" problems as we are doing about these privacy issues. There have been some discussions about education policies, but they come and go. Privacy issues have been lurking around ever since social media emerged, and as I said, I am worried that this event makes it go overboard.
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#25You will, no doubt, find plenty of people who trust Obama to not do this. You'll find plenty of people who would have trusted Bush, and you'll even find a lot of people who don't trust either one of them. But there's a fourth corner to that square, and I don't think you'd find many people in it at all: people who would trust both Bush and Obama with data like this. That's the thing about governments: people have succ…
Not just "plenty of people" -- actual majorities in both parties:
"There are significant partisan differences [in 2013] in views of the government's program to obtain call logs and Internet communication. Democrats are more likely to approve, by 49% to 40%. Independents (34% vs. 56%) and Republicans (32% to 63%) are much more likely to disapprove than approve.
"In 2006, when Gallup asked the similar question about a program that came to light at that point, Republicans were significantly more likely to approve than Democrats. The differences in partisan reaction between 2006 and 2013 reflect the party of the president under whose watch the programs were carried out at those two points in time."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/163043/americans-disapprove-gover...
It just baffles me that many Americans are so myopic on this issue that they can't even see past a single election cycle!
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#26You will, no doubt, find plenty of people who trust Obama to not do this. You'll find plenty of people who would have trusted Bush, and you'll even find a lot of people who don't trust either one of them. But there's a fourth corner to that square, and I don't think you'd find many people in it at all: people who would trust both Bush and Obama with data like this. That's the thing about governments: people have succ…
The other problem -- despite the changing of the guard in the Executive branch -- other branches and workers stay the same.
That's not exactly a problem. Asynchronous turnover in the branches helps provide operational stability while still allowing for accountability by voting the bastards out.
At least that's the theory.
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I despise arguments like yours, which logically lead to the claim that only the most important problem in the world should be worried about until it is solved, and then the new most important problem, etc. Not only is it ridiculous on its own, it also requires the arguer to break the very rule he or she is proposing, by spending time worrying about what other people are worrying about, instead of whatever the most im…
I can't remember who said this, but my response to your comment can be best articulated with this quote "all philosophical arguments root from grammatical inconsistencies". So, I apologize if I made you feel that way. That was not my intent. The only other time I remember such an outcry here at HN was when Steve Jobs passed. A big and depressing event, indeed. I just don't understand why we complain so sparsely about…
If you genuinely do not understand why humans almost universally do this, I can offer some ideas. One is temporal proximity. The NSA leaks are very recent in time, while other arguably more important problems have been around forever. There's also physical proximity (people aren't dying of hunger much in the Western world), likelihood of affecting change (people may think that political action right now can help with the NSA issues, but probably gave up on protesting foreign policy or the drug war years ago), topicality (Jobs' death may not be more important than world hunger, but it's proportionally more directly relevant to this community), etc.
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#28A recent poll found 20% of Republicans think Obama's the antichrist...
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#29You will, no doubt, find plenty of people who trust Obama to not do this. You'll find plenty of people who would have trusted Bush, and you'll even find a lot of people who don't trust either one of them. But there's a fourth corner to that square, and I don't think you'd find many people in it at all: people who would trust both Bush and Obama with data like this. That's the thing about governments: people have succ…
I'm Guilty of it, at the time I would have trusted G.W. Bush with those powers. Now Obama not so much. and certainly not the next Republican President.
You maybe able to trust the guy now but will you trust the next guy? That is the lesson that I have learned.
Re: 57% Fear Government Will Use NSA Data to Harass Political Opponents
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
The other problem -- despite the changing of the guard in the Executive branch -- other branches and workers stay the same.
Exactly. I find it confounding how people are still attributing this stuff to Presidents when it should be obvious by now it's not the elected officials running this show. They're being led along by an entrenched bureaucracy with its own goals and agenda, no term limits, and with the ability to shape the world view and hence decisions of our elected officials by what information they choose to provide or withhold. St…
This simply isn't true. Obama ran on being Bush's third and fourth terms and that's what we got. The two of them have been a radical departure from previous administrations. Two presidencies does not make an immutable law of nature.
Recent political events have demonstrated just how autonomous the President is, there is no reason to think there is some sort of hidden power at play here.
If anything we need a stronger and more professional bureaucracy that's less eager to help the President break the law.