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NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

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Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#41
post #17
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, what’s wrong with just calling? It is probably the easiest way to find out whether someone is generally willing to cooperate, and if they don’t, the NSA doesn’t lose much either?

NSA was long nicknamed "No Such Agency" for a reason - they were, and to an extent still are, notoriously secretive compared to other US intelligence agencies. I'd expect them to approach it via intermediaries. Frankly it sounds more likely to me that this was a poor attempt at social engineering rather than a genuine contact from the NSA.

Frankly it sounds more likely to me that this was a poor attempt at social engineering rather than a genuine contact from the NSA.

Seems like you could really play this NSA stuff up in social engineering attack, especially if you were willing to put some work into it. Imagine grabbbing the NSA logo off their website, and make some fancy looking, seemingly authentic laminated plastic ID cards, then show up at someone's office asking for data/access/etc. and claiming to be from the NSA. Even hand then a "National Security Letter" and carefully explain the gag order to them, and let them know that doing so much as picking up the phone to call anybody else to ask about cooperating could result in them being jailed. Subtly hint that "jailed" might mean "disappeared to Guantanamo".

Since everybody knows that the NSA is kinda "in the shadows" and lots of people have heard of NSL's and gag orders by now, I imagine you could get a lot of people to go along with this. Especially if you had two big, physically imposing guys in nice suits to play the roles.

(edit: I am, in this case, mainly talking about inside the USA, where NSL's have authority, etc.)

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#42
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an old scam that's been going round, where a person calls up a mark claiming to be from their bank. They say that there are some security issues with their bank account and for security reasons, they should call the phone number on the back of their credit card. The mark hangs the phone up, but the scammer stays on the line and plays a dial tone the line, when the mark picks the phone up, they hear a ring ton…

It's an interesting story but the phone system doesn't actually work that way.

On landlines the call isn't finished until the caller hangs up. This allows features such as "call waiting" to work: the receiver flashes the hook in a certain way to switch to the other call. If flashing the hook would disconnect the call, "call waiting" wouldn't work.

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#43

I call bs on this one, time will tell. Lennard Zwart is a guy who clearly has an economic interest in playing the 'don't host in the US' card. He wrote another article in 2012 about this with the same angle (see below, hit google translate if you can't read Dutch) and is totally vague about the call, does not explain why a C level exec would receive a call like that and did not report on making the required effort to…

I'm a customer there, and from interactions I had with them they take data security and privacy very seriously.

Of course there is an economic interest in showing the disadvantages of hosting European data in the US. But what's wrong with that? That is simply true. For example: in some cases you break Dutch privacy laws when hosting data about individuals in the US (without taking special precautions).

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#44
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isnt this a general behavior of typical stereotype american? Most of them believes America as theland of the law and anything else is savagery.

What an utterly useless post. I had to double check I was on ycombinator and not reddit after reading this. Isn't this a general behavior of typical sterotype (you can't even speak english correctly) european? Most them believes europe as theland of the law and anything else is savagery. Why even bother making posts like these? We get it, america and therefore vicariously all americans are horrible people, the devil,…

I never meant, Americans are horrible people. I actually meant it to be the answer of why NSA (or someone from NSA) would believe US law holds true in NL.

I am sorry if the stereotypical american meant all of those, but I had in my mind picture of a naive NSA employee who didnt think twice before making the call to an international company.

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#45

How do you know if this caller is from the NSA for real? I could get up to all sorts if mischief. Either I can make the NSA look bad, or I can social engineer my way into ISPs by pretending to be the NSA. Good on this ISP though!

The NSA/CIA never (rarely?) call. Everything is (almost?) always routed through the FBI. If someone contacts you claiming to be from the CIA or NSA, and you are not employed by the DoD, they are very likely to be frauds.

From there, you can get the supposed agent's field office, look it up on fbi.gov and call them back.

http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field

Be advised that each field office has satellite offices within their jurisdictions. Satellite office addresses and phone numbers are published on fbi.gov also.

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#46
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isnt this a general behavior of typical stereotype american? Most of them believes America as theland of the law and anything else is savagery.

What an utterly useless post. I had to double check I was on ycombinator and not reddit after reading this. Isn't this a general behavior of typical sterotype (you can't even speak english correctly) european? Most them believes europe as theland of the law and anything else is savagery. Why even bother making posts like these? We get it, america and therefore vicariously all americans are horrible people, the devil,…

>(you can't even speak english correctly)

Son, if you're going to play that card you need to proof-read before you hit that 'reply' button.

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#47
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting story but the phone system doesn't actually work that way.

It does, at least in the UK

Are you sure about that? I live in Scotland and I think I'd have noticed not being able to hang up a call because the other side didn't.

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting story but the phone system doesn't actually work that way.

I haven't used a landline in years now, but when I was a kid it worked that way: one end hanging up wouldn't disconnect the circuit, and if the other end took the phone off-hook shortly afterwards it'd still be connected. This would sometimes wind up being the deciding factor in the eternal battle of "which sibling gets to use the phone"

In my memory it never relied on both parties hanging up here in New Zealand, but on a trip to the UK as as child I noticed that the phone line disconnecting relied on both parties hanging up. I'm 31.

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#49
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an old scam that's been going round, where a person calls up a mark claiming to be from their bank. They say that there are some security issues with their bank account and for security reasons, they should call the phone number on the back of their credit card. The mark hangs the phone up, but the scammer stays on the line and plays a dial tone the line, when the mark picks the phone up, they hear a ring ton…

It's an interesting story but the phone system doesn't actually work that way.

In the UK it does. On a standard BT residential line the caller can hold the call open even after the callee has put down the handset. When the callee lifts the handset again they won't be able to begin a new call until the caller terminates the call.

Re: NSA gets no reply in Dutch cloud provider

#50
post #43

I call bs on this one, time will tell. Lennard Zwart is a guy who clearly has an economic interest in playing the 'don't host in the US' card. He wrote another article in 2012 about this with the same angle (see below, hit google translate if you can't read Dutch) and is totally vague about the call, does not explain why a C level exec would receive a call like that and did not report on making the required effort to…

I'm a customer there, and from interactions I had with them they take data security and privacy very seriously. Of course there is an economic interest in showing the disadvantages of hosting European data in the US. But what's wrong with that? That is simply true. For example: in some cases you break Dutch privacy laws when hosting data about individuals in the US (without taking special precautions).

Inventing stories is what's wrong with that.
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