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Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

cs.jhu.edu

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Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#171

Post by microarchitect »

robomartin wrote: post #145
microarchitect wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's this about a student visa? A student visa is a completely legal way of entering the US. PS. Post the Boston bombings the immigration officials at the port of entry are required to verify valid student status before letting students (F1 visa holders) into the US. This means the chances of people entering the country illegally through a student visa are slim to none.

I am talking about using a student visa to get in and then stay and work permanently and not study. In other words, using the visa fraudulently. If you want to stay and work go through the proper legal process and get a resident visa. Again, legal immigration.

Overstaying on an F1 visa is quite hard because the school is required to report all changes in academic status through the SEVIS database.

If you want to stay and work go through the proper legal process and get a resident visa.

F1 students are allowed to work 20 hours a week when the school is in session and 40 hours a week during the summer.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#172

Post by [deleted] »

rbehrends wrote: post #153
genwin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to know my taxes pay for the lofty education of people who may have no intention of working in my country.

If you don't want them, other countries will be more than happy to take those unwanted Ph.D. students off your hands. Ph.D. students don't pay tuition because the remuneration they get for their work is part tuition waivers, part money. If they do not work for the university and are not eligible for tuition waivers, they have to pay tuition instead (both foreigners and US Americans). In practice, they are basically i…

[deleted]

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#174

Post by mikeash »

rayiner wrote: post #111
mikeash wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there is no due process for these things. You're always playing a bit of a lottery whenever you interact with, well, just about anything. But when domestic police screw up (or not!) and you get in trouble, there's at least a process in place that tries to smooth things out. It's still not a guarantee, but if you didn't actually do anything wrong, the process makes a decent stab at ensuring that fa…

The problem with foreigners having rights is that it goes against very deep principles in the western tradition. If sovereignty means anything, it means the inherent power to create and enforce borders. Its like one of the defining charecteristics of a biological cell: the establishment of an "inside" and an "outside." Subjecting the inherent power of a sovereign entity to control access through its borders to judici…

I don't really understand this. Judges are part of the government, so how is allowing judges to actually judge things at the border a violation of sovereignty?

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#175

Post by astrodust »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #155
astrodust wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should we be writing checks to Germany when a German-educated person comes over to the US and starts a business? After all, Germany should be compensated for their loss, right? If an American chooses to move to Singapore to work for an international bank, then maybe they should be forced to pay back the subsidy on their education, right? Here's the thing: Education is not a waste of money. It costs almost nothing…

Don't the big sports programs pay for themselves?

Not really. They sponge up massive amounts of money from the public in the form of subsidies, tax breaks, and other concessions.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#176

Post by rayiner »

mikeash wrote: post #174
rayiner wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with foreigners having rights is that it goes against very deep principles in the western tradition. If sovereignty means anything, it means the inherent power to create and enforce borders. Its like one of the defining charecteristics of a biological cell: the establishment of an "inside" and an "outside." Subjecting the inherent power of a sovereign entity to control access through its borders to judici…

I don't really understand this. Judges are part of the government, so how is allowing judges to actually judge things at the border a violation of sovereignty?

I'm talking about rights, not laws. Congress could, for example, pass a law requiring immigration officials to give certain process to people denied visas. Judges could enforce those laws, and nothing about such a scheme would violate sovereignty.[1] But saying that foreigners have a right to such process is different. Where does this right come from? Foreigners are not parties to the Constitution so it can't come from that. It has to come from something "bigger," some higher law that encompasses both the foreigner and the U.S. But unless you believe in some sort of God and divine law, there is no such thing. The sovereign entity is the end of the line--nothing binds its actions other than its own conscience.

[1] Though many people would say it's a separation of powers violation.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#177

Post by rayiner »

ritchiea wrote: post #139
rayiner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambridge isn't exactly representative, either of americans' attitudes towards immigration nor of the immigrants themselves.

Obviously. The thing about America right now is that there's no one city or even state that is representative of the country. The country is experiencing a cultural and political deadlock which can sort of be generalized to a divide between the coasts and the south. If you live in Cambridge or SV or NYC you get angered by issues presented in the OP, why shouldn't this brilliant student be allowed into the country? Th…

You don't have to leave the coasts. Just head over to Herndon in the suburbs of D.C. (http://www.voanews.com/content/illegal-immigration-reform-he...).

You don't get to say that "your America" does not include the rest of the country, not unless you're willing to take up arms and defend Boston as a sovereign entity against foreign invasion.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#178

Post by genwin »

astrodust wrote: post #131
genwin wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then let MIT pay for that, not me, when there's no likelihood the student will be paying me back in the form of US taxes. The research leads to patents that MIT gets compensated for, not me. My taxes are likely being wasted here, working against the society I support. It doesn't matter if it's only a dime of mine since all waste is bad and adds up to a lot. No I'm not going to take it up with my representative, falli…

So should we be writing checks to Germany when a German-educated person comes over to the US and starts a business? After all, Germany should be compensated for their loss, right? If an American chooses to move to Singapore to work for an international bank, then maybe they should be forced to pay back the subsidy on their education, right? Here's the thing: Education is not a waste of money. It costs almost nothing…

Can you knock off the straw man arguments? Not wanting my taxes to be wasted isn't a valueless point just because I'm one of many taxpayers, or because the US doesn't compensate Germany when a German-educated person moves to the US, or because education is worth money to someone, or because money is wasted elsewhere, etc.

If the US taxpayers' investment in foreign students who may not end up staying here is a net benefit to US society and that benefit has been reasonably maximized, then I'm all for it. Otherwise I'm not. When a foreign student is given a nice education at taxpayer expense without so much as granting them a green card on arrival to increase the odds they'll stay here, I suspect that taxpayer money is being wasted, even if the return of educating foreign students is positive on net.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#179

Post by genwin »

john_b wrote: post #108
genwin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to know my taxes pay for the lofty education of people who may have no intention of working in my country.

Your taxes also pay--though usually not completely--for the aimless four year party that constitutes many college students' experience in higher education. Given the ratio of undergraduates to science & engineering PhD students, I'd wager that the former consumes a much larger portion of your taxes than the latter, and for less return on the investment. Not to mention the fact that many foreign PhD students have stro…

I shouldn't be concerned about wastage in one area because there's wastage in another area? Doesn't compute.

> Not to mention the fact that many foreign PhD students have strong desires to live and work here...but Uncle Sam apparently thinks it's better to shove them out.

Yes, I believe this. As long as Uncle Sam is cutting off its nose to spite its face, maybe we shouldn't be educating these foreign students. Maybe wait until Uncle Sam is smart enough to first give the students a green card.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#180

Post by genwin »

peterwwillis wrote: post #160
genwin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to know my taxes pay for the lofty education of people who may have no intention of working in my country.

Those two things have nothing to do with one another. First of all, there aren't enough American students qualified to do the research your taxes are paying for. They have to use foreign students or it would never get done. Second, you're angry that they're not working here, but if they were working here, you'd be angry they're taking our jobs. You're angry at the wrong people. You should be angry at American student…

I'm not angry, I'm concerned that taxpayer money is being wasted. If a foreign student is so worthy that we'll pay for their education then we should get some indication that they intend to stay here, plus roll out the welcome mat for their citizenship, all in advance of that education.
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