Dear U.S. Navy, Where are your nuclear subs and what are their missions? Sincerely, Definitely a U.S. citizen
I don't want to keep secrets of public works from any of you. The people in the govt are there to do things we chose to do for everyone. If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. I don't personally want the launch codes for the missiles, but I want to know who has them, what the policy is for using them, when they are used (each and every time), what w…
If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem.
> You want to know what officers are working under cover in the police force? I don't think that there need to be undercover police officers. > Who are informants on terrorist organizations working against the state? I don't think there need to be informants on terrorist organizations. > The home phone numbers and addresses of all public employees? Their emergency contact numbers? Medical histories relevant to their…
I generally agree with you, but to be Devil's Advocate for a moment, what do you think about secret R&D for purposes of defense? Even some of the most staunch anarcho-capitalists I know believe in centralized national defense as one of the very few legitimate functions of the state. Would not having planes invisible to radar (B-2), or those that could fly faster than missiles (SR-71) be nice secrets to keep from ever…
> Even some of the most staunch anarcho-capitalists I know believe in centralized national defense as one of the very few legitimate functions of the state.
Really? You or they must be using the term "anarcho-capitalism" in a non-standard way. In the standard usage of the term, the whole point is to be distinguished from pro-government libertarians and minarchists who believe that there are a few legitimate functions of the state. I've never heard anyone use the term to refer to an ideology that accepts any legitimate functions of the state.
> You want to know what officers are working under cover in the police force? I don't think that there need to be undercover police officers. > Who are informants on terrorist organizations working against the state? I don't think there need to be informants on terrorist organizations. > The home phone numbers and addresses of all public employees? Their emergency contact numbers? Medical histories relevant to their…
I generally agree with you, but to be Devil's Advocate for a moment, what do you think about secret R&D for purposes of defense? Even some of the most staunch anarcho-capitalists I know believe in centralized national defense as one of the very few legitimate functions of the state. Would not having planes invisible to radar (B-2), or those that could fly faster than missiles (SR-71) be nice secrets to keep from ever…
We seem to have created many of the problems that we now need the Defense industry to bail us out of.
This whole story has had a baffling effect on HN. For the last few days 4/5ths of everything on the frontpage has been related to the NSA. I'm not saying that its not an important issue, but Christ do we need to have every bloggers opinion upvoted to the top? Even Apple was only able to make the top of front page for a short time. This is HN and Apple's latest news is not the top story. It's like I'm on a completely…
What astounds me is that the mainstream media is not similarly in uproar. People don't seem to understand what this means: the government is spying on us, it is lying about the spying, and now it is telling us to not worry about it, to just move along, AND WE'RE DOING IT. This is the most alarming thing I've seen in my adult life.
The government isn't really spying on us en masse, any more than terrorists are out to get us en masse. for one thing, people are more concerned with external threats than internal ones (and I think that's reasonably rational, because the US is really a very long way from anything resembling totalitarianism); for another, most people assume taht the government already has/had access to what you do on your cellphone/facebook/internet searches so actual evidence of data manaing doesn't seem all that big of a revelation. Most Americans are already used to having everything they do entered into a database already; consider that the course of most people's lives are already shaped by their credit scores without any particular help from the government. At least you can FOIA the government to see what information they have on you. Good luck getting any private firm like Google to give you that information; we had to pass a law to ensure people have access to their own credit report, and that only entitles one free request annually.
If you stop playing the game Civilization and look back at history, you'll see that there are a lot of very bad people in the world who do very bad things. All of the freedoms that we enjoy in Western democracies were hard-won and continue to be backed up by guns, bombs, codes, and secrets. It's not pretty, but that's how things are. It might well be that the current approach to domestic surveillance is out of balanc…
On the topic of history... "After the fall of the Roman Republic, the constitutional balance of power shifted from the Roman Senate to the Roman Emperor. Though retaining its legal position as under the Republic, in practice, however the actual authority of the Imperial Senate was negligible, as the Emperor held the true power in the state. As such, membership in the Senate became sought after by individuals seeking…
Be slightly careful with your analogies between the US and Nazi Germany, too.
No, really, that's not just the official story. The reality is that tens of millions of people were killed in wars and genocides in just the 20th century. The most basic role of government is to protect its own citizens against that , and it is not an abstract threat. And despite their many flaws, and the many wrong things that they have done, the US and its allies remain the most open, free societies and a positive,…
How many of those genocides were carried on by a government against some segment of its population? How justified is it to look at the tens of millions who have been killed by their governments and conclude that if the governments are to protect us from war and genocide, "with friends like these, who needs enemies?"
Well, actually all genocides were carried on by people (part of a government or not), so maybe we should eliminate people.
How many of those genocides were carried on by a government against some segment of its population? How justified is it to look at the tens of millions who have been killed by their governments and conclude that if the governments are to protect us from war and genocide, "with friends like these, who needs enemies?"
Well, actually all genocides were carried on by people (part of a government or not), so maybe we should eliminate people. Either that or not make broad generalizations.
Indeed. Imagine if we just killed everyone how many social problems we'd solve....
But my broader point was, larger government surveillance and national security powers won't stop genocides or wars between governments. This isn't what they are there for. They are there to prevent groups which are deemed politically dangerous ("terrorists" which evidently include nuclear protesters, environmentalists, and states' rights advocates).
It's one thing to have spy agencies. However widespread spying on one's own people is never a good sign.
On the topic of history... "After the fall of the Roman Republic, the constitutional balance of power shifted from the Roman Senate to the Roman Emperor. Though retaining its legal position as under the Republic, in practice, however the actual authority of the Imperial Senate was negligible, as the Emperor held the true power in the state. As such, membership in the Senate became sought after by individuals seeking…
Be slightly careful with your analogies between the US and Nazi Germany, too.
Before Nazi Germany it was just Germany. Unless one is racist against Germans, one must in the interest of humanity seek to understand exactly how that transition happened.
On the topic of history... "After the fall of the Roman Republic, the constitutional balance of power shifted from the Roman Senate to the Roman Emperor. Though retaining its legal position as under the Republic, in practice, however the actual authority of the Imperial Senate was negligible, as the Emperor held the true power in the state. As such, membership in the Senate became sought after by individuals seeking…
Be slightly careful with your analogies between the US and Nazi Germany, too.
Everyone be slightly careful about anything they read on history.
We don't need an NSA or CIA or any other spy agency. I know I'm an extremist on government secrets, but I think there should be none. Nothing should be outside the reach of a FOIA request. In my ideal world all government officials' documents and emails would be made publicly accesible in real time, they're working for us. Any exception or loophole to transparency gets abused, every time. If that makes it harder to c…
If you stop playing the game Civilization and look back at history, you'll see that there are a lot of very bad people in the world who do very bad things. All of the freedoms that we enjoy in Western democracies were hard-won and continue to be backed up by guns, bombs, codes, and secrets. It's not pretty, but that's how things are. It might well be that the current approach to domestic surveillance is out of balanc…
What freedoms are being protected exactly? The freedom from government intrusion in your private life? The freedom to travel? The freedom to bear arms and defend yourself? The freedom to grow whichever plant you wish in your own land? The freedom to do with your own body as you please, provided you do not harm anyone else? The freedom from excessive labour? The freedom to run a currency like Bitcoin? The freedom from being targeted by the IRS if you go against the status quo? The freedom of the press? Or do you mean some other freedoms? Or maybe, just maybe, you mean security and not freedom at all?