NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#121

Post by nck4222 » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:27 AM UTC

jleader wrote: post #115

jfisher wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear U.S. Navy, Where are your nuclear subs and what are their missions? Sincerely, Definitely a U.S. citizen

Why exactly do we still need nuclear subs? I'm not trying to be a troll, or funny. What threat is currently best dealt with by deploying ICBMs in nuclear subs? And why is the money better spent on that than on any other alternative use?

Nuclear submarines typically refer to submarines that are nuclear powered, not submarines that carry nuclear missiles. Although some submarines do carry ICBMs.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#122

Post by hawleyal » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:27 AM UTC

jmduke wrote: post #114

hawleyal wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to keep secrets of public works from any of you. The people in the govt are there to do things we chose to do for everyone. If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. I don't personally want the launch codes for the missiles, but I want to know who has them, what the policy is for using them, when they are used (each and every time), what w…

If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. I'm glad you aren't in the Department of Defense, then. The military serves at everyone's behest, not of their own accord. This is a false dichotomy.

You enjoy secret wars in your name, cool. That's not what I would call a functional society.

It's not a dichotomy, let alone a false one. Please explain your objection.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#123

Post by jvm » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:28 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #117

jleader wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly do we still need nuclear subs? I'm not trying to be a troll, or funny. What threat is currently best dealt with by deploying ICBMs in nuclear subs? And why is the money better spent on that than on any other alternative use?

China and Russia.

Are those really not dealt with via ICBMs? Why do we need the capacity to destroy them 20x over within 25 minutes when 1x with 3 hours notice would suffice? It seems like the downside risk of rogue actors or accidents causing a nuclear holocaust far outweighs the benefits of additional weapons at the margin.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#124

Post by JamisonM » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:30 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #104

We don't need an NSA or CIA or any other spy agency. I know I'm an extremist on government secrets, but I think there should be none. Nothing should be outside the reach of a FOIA request. In my ideal world all government officials' documents and emails would be made publicly accesible in real time, they're working for us. Any exception or loophole to transparency gets abused, every time. If that makes it harder to c…

There are an absurd number of things that it makes sense for the government to keep from the public and not divesting that information but keeping the people who have that information accountable is what elections are for.

You want to know what officers are working under cover in the police force? Who are informants on terrorist organizations working against the state? The home phone numbers and addresses of all public employees? Their emergency contact numbers? Medical histories relevant to their jobs? One can go on and on.

Demanding better of elected officials makes sense, crippling the capacity of government to do kinds of work that it has to do does not.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#125

Post by michaelwww » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:33 AM UTC

kyzyl wrote: post #68

jpdoctor wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make that four crowds: Those who are waiting for the comment pages to come back to life.

... and those who use the comments to proxy article quality before reading. Five. There are five crowds of people on reddit/HN. The commenters, the voters, the readers, the waiters, and the lazy. And also the submitters. Six. There six crowds of people on reddit/HN! And... ;-)

Make that seven. You're forgetting the NSA ;-)

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#126

Post by bicknergseng » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:36 AM UTC

jleader wrote: post #115

jfisher wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear U.S. Navy, Where are your nuclear subs and what are their missions? Sincerely, Definitely a U.S. citizen

Why exactly do we still need nuclear subs? I'm not trying to be a troll, or funny. What threat is currently best dealt with by deploying ICBMs in nuclear subs? And why is the money better spent on that than on any other alternative use?

I'm curious why we need both a nuclear deterrent and a standing army of 1,127,801 people. Seems like more of an XOR.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#127

Post by michaelwww » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:37 AM UTC

EthanHeilman wrote: post #83

michaelwww wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's another bunch of billions down the drain, unless it's designed for another purpose entirely. A certain segment of the elite have always dreamed about tracking every citizen. Larry Ellison of Oracle famously proposed a National Identity Card. So it goes...

Well not all terrorists take precautions, many are quite stupid and it only takes one to bring a whole network the attention of the NSA. The bigger problem is that even if their false positive rate is really low, they are hoovering so much data that the true positives (dumb terrorists) get drowned out by the noise. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8153539.stm It's why this sort of large scale surveillance…

I've lived my life like everything I do online is or could be public for several years now. It forces me to be mindful of the issue.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#128

Post by mbreese » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:40 AM UTC

jvm wrote: post #123

rayiner wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and Russia.

Are those really not dealt with via ICBMs? Why do we need the capacity to destroy them 20x over within 25 minutes when 1x with 3 hours notice would suffice? It seems like the downside risk of rogue actors or accidents causing a nuclear holocaust far outweighs the benefits of additional weapons at the margin.

ICBMs don't move around... so they are easily targeted themselves.

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#129

Post by rayiner » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

jvm wrote: post #123

rayiner wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and Russia.

Are those really not dealt with via ICBMs? Why do we need the capacity to destroy them 20x over within 25 minutes when 1x with 3 hours notice would suffice? It seems like the downside risk of rogue actors or accidents causing a nuclear holocaust far outweighs the benefits of additional weapons at the margin.

Do you want the information relating to the ICBM's to be public knowledge?

Re: NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

#130

Post by rayiner » Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 1:42 AM UTC

bicknergseng wrote: post #126

jleader wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly do we still need nuclear subs? I'm not trying to be a troll, or funny. What threat is currently best dealt with by deploying ICBMs in nuclear subs? And why is the money better spent on that than on any other alternative use?

I'm curious why we need both a nuclear deterrent and a standing army of 1,127,801 people. Seems like more of an XOR.

Because we subsidize world peace (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-01-22/india...). Maybe it's a business we need to get out of, but at the moment, the reason Europe, etc, get away with spending so little on defense is that they can count on NATO, and the U.S. basically carries NATO.