Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 366 posts

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#41

Post by mtgx »

euroclydon wrote: post #10
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

You certainly do not speak for everyone outside the U.S. who has asked themselves the question: "Can I name a U.S. reporter who has disappeared or been murdered for producing material critical of the government?" or "Are U.S. citizens routinely arrested and placed in re-education by labor camps for a year without a trial?"

Journalists are starting to be arrested, protesting is becoming increasingly harder, when the police starts arresting them as soon as they seem them, on BS grounds, and as others mentioned there's Gitmo and the torture, and the CIA kidnappings.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#42

Post by venomsnake »

pfortuny wrote: post #37
venomsnake wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this obscure document known as the us constitution that defines treason as Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. He is definitely not waging war on the US and is not adhering to any enemy, nor giving them aid and comfort. Or he is aiding enemy so secret that the government even cannot tell you who it is…

"Aid" as in intelligence. Any piece of it you give to them can be considered treason. To make public is to yield to the enemy...

Tell which enemy was aided. And also tell where this entity have been defined as an enemy?

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#43

Post by anonymfus »

newbie12 wrote: post #12
_airh wrote: post #8

It is strange that the same country which cherishes its 'right to bear arms' on the grounds that it gives them a level of protection that the government is unable to provide is 'happy' to build the infrastructure which allows the same government to peek into their lives. On the one hand, we don't trust the government with the basics (physical security). On the other, we trust them with information we don't want our p…

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"But when people fear each another they start to want tyranny." — anonymfus.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#44

Post by mtgx »

pfortuny wrote: post #37
venomsnake wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this obscure document known as the us constitution that defines treason as Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. He is definitely not waging war on the US and is not adhering to any enemy, nor giving them aid and comfort. Or he is aiding enemy so secret that the government even cannot tell you who it is…

"Aid" as in intelligence. Any piece of it you give to them can be considered treason. To make public is to yield to the enemy...

No it's not. Laws function by intention, too. He didn't make it public to aid the "enemy" (who is the enemy anyway? the world?). He did it to protect America. I think he also swore an oath to protect America against enemies both domestic and abroad. And he also swore to defend the Constitution - not the president.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#45

Post by taktix »

josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

In China, the government is predictable and the streets are safe. In the US, the government is the enemy of the people and young school children are massacred while in public school for no reason.

America, you have NOTHING to brag about.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#46

Post by DamnYuppie »

mtgx wrote: post #32
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

So is the 4th amendment, and look how much that one is abused. In the end the Constitution really is "just a piece of paper", if not the government , not the judges , not the media , and ultimately not even the people respect it, live by it, and try to protect it as soon as it's endangered by people trying to accumulate too much power. Where are all the street protests?! I also fail to understand people who so viciou…

I don't disagree with you on the importance of the 1st and 4th amendments.

I think the ACLU and EFF will indeed become stronger. I don't know of any 2nd amendment supporters who are also not strong 1st and 4th supporters, the issue comes down to how their voice is heard. Also I don't know any of them who who wouldn't rather change things peacefully, it is a much better solution.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#47

Post by DamnYuppie »

Retric wrote: post #28
dsego wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments have to be kept in check. They're granted great power and people who have power tend to abuse it. My understanding is that the founding fathers were realists and recognised this very early on.

Having guns does little to hold government in chech. A well educated, well informed, and politically active populace on the other hand is a strait jacket. Which is why free assembly and free speech are so important.

I agree a well educated and informed society is the best deterrent to keeping governments serving the best interest of the people. Yet recent events have shown that we are not that well informed by our media and government on purpose.

Guns are not a deterrent in as much as a means to allow the people to defend themselves against an abusive government when and if needed.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#48

Post by nthj »

_airh wrote: post #8

It is strange that the same country which cherishes its 'right to bear arms' on the grounds that it gives them a level of protection that the government is unable to provide is 'happy' to build the infrastructure which allows the same government to peek into their lives. On the one hand, we don't trust the government with the basics (physical security). On the other, we trust them with information we don't want our p…

It's interesting to note that in neither case (physical security OR information security) has the government accepted responsibility to protect you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#49

Post by cLeEOGPw »

josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

Have to agree on this. USA has lost it's appeal for me for quite some time now. For me the countries that I'd like to live in the most are Switzerland, Canada, Australia (I don't know about the US influence there much though), maybe Germany or other similar Western European state, but certainly not US. I live in Eastern Europe btw.
Post reply on HN