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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#21

Post by belorn »

euroclydon wrote: post #10
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

You certainly do not speak for everyone outside the U.S. who has asked themselves the question: "Can I name a U.S. reporter who has disappeared or been murdered for producing material critical of the government?" or "Are U.S. citizens routinely arrested and placed in re-education by labor camps for a year without a trial?"

> "Are U.S. citizens routinely arrested and placed in re-education by labor camps for a year without a trial?"

No, people are just sent to Gitmo to be waterboarded and held indefinite without a trial. They don't even care the nationality of where you come from.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#22

Post by dagw »

josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

I live in Sweden and while most people here are pretty critical to US, most people also realize that they are not in the same league as China and Russia.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#23

Post by venomsnake »

[deleted] wrote: post #14

[deleted]

There is this obscure document known as the us constitution that defines treason as

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

He is definitely not waging war on the US and is not adhering to any enemy, nor giving them aid and comfort.

Or he is aiding enemy so secret that the government even cannot tell you who it is.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#24

Post by dsego »

Yver wrote: post #16
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

No offense to Thomas Jefferson but a government that is afraid of its own people is a pretty peculiar definition of "liberty."

Governments have to be kept in check. They're granted great power and people who have power tend to abuse it. My understanding is that the founding fathers were realists and recognised this very early on.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#25

Post by Jacqued »

euroclydon wrote: post #10
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

You certainly do not speak for everyone outside the U.S. who has asked themselves the question: "Can I name a U.S. reporter who has disappeared or been murdered for producing material critical of the government?" or "Are U.S. citizens routinely arrested and placed in re-education by labor camps for a year without a trial?"

To be fair, nobody thinks the U.S. has reached the same level in practice against U.S. citizens than Beijing against chinese citizens or Moscow against russian reporters. U.S. citizens are still somewhat protected by the Bill of Rights (well, other than the 4th and soon the 5th).

Now when it comes to foreigners there's not much that can be said for the U.S - although the border can be somewhat thin with extraordinary renditions and withdrawal of nationality to allow for arbitrary executions. Also, it seems that the will to deconstruct civil liberties is nowhere as strong as it is in Washington DC (except in Pyongyang), so that doesn't help. And the american people do not seem to care at all (but then again, the same is happening in Europe to a smaller extent, and the people don't care either)

So I'd say this perception is more linked to the direction you're headed to than to the place where you are right now (although that is scary in its own right too)

Some days I just think I should move to Iceland

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#26

Post by tekmate »

twoodfin wrote: post #15
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

I can't even begin to comprehend how bad your sources of information are if you think the levels of freedom in the U.S. and China are more closely comparable than those of the U.S. and Australia.

it's more about the perception than actual levels of freedom, the US is a country that tortures, detains people from all over the world indefinitely without trial in an offshore location, bails out bankers while promoting austerity for everyone else, spies on people worldwide, starts wars all over the world, uses remotely controlled killing machines

and most of that isn't even new, the veil of the american dream has been ripped apart.

what is most depressing is that in the next election cycle, the american people will just run back to the republicans instead of finally giving up on the charade that are political parties

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#27

Post by Fuxy »

I doubt there is a country on this planet the US government can't strike a deal with to get his ass back and into prison.

However we all have to be grateful for what he did regardless I sure it wasn't an easy decision to make.

Good luck Edward and don't make any mistakes.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#28

Post by Retric »

dsego wrote: post #24
Yver wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense to Thomas Jefferson but a government that is afraid of its own people is a pretty peculiar definition of "liberty."

Governments have to be kept in check. They're granted great power and people who have power tend to abuse it. My understanding is that the founding fathers were realists and recognised this very early on.

Having guns does little to hold government in chech. A well educated, well informed, and politically active populace on the other hand is a strait jacket. Which is why free assembly and free speech are so important.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#29

Post by jswinghammer »

Yver wrote: post #16
newbie12 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to bear arms is also, explicitly, a protection against tyranny BY the government. Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

No offense to Thomas Jefferson but a government that is afraid of its own people is a pretty peculiar definition of "liberty."

It's one based on examining the history of governments.
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