[deleted]
Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
51–60 of 91 posts
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Section 215, known as the "business records" portion of The PATRIOT Act allows "FBI agents to obtain any "tangible thing," including "books, records, papers, documents, and other items," a broad term that includes dumps from private-sector computer databases, with limited judicial oversight."[1] That Section 215 exits is public record. However, the government has a "secret interpretation" of the law that allows itsel…
It would appear that the FISA court agrees with that interpretation as well, correct?
The court's opinion is classified. The DOJ is trying to block a FOIA suit filed by the EFF to release the opinion.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/government-says-secret...
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would appear that the FISA court agrees with that interpretation as well, correct?
The court's opinion is classified. The DOJ is trying to block a FOIA suit filed by the EFF to release the opinion. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/government-says-secret...
Court opinions can be classified? What in the actual fuck?
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
>If not, and there's a very real chance that neither of these are true, then the question doesn't make sense. Particularly since every tech company leader (and the NSA) are insisting that neither is true.
This is just it. This time last week it was public knowledge that (for example) Google complied with FISA 702 orders. Now it's public knowledge that Google complies with FISA 702 orders, using a workflow-automation system. There are hints of extra reasons to be more worried than before, but so far it seeems they're all either speculative or disputed: (I'll keep talking about Google specifically just to narrow things…
Not a bad summary. (I wrote one of the articles you cited.)
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
The court's opinion is classified. The DOJ is trying to block a FOIA suit filed by the EFF to release the opinion. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/government-says-secret...
Court opinions can be classified? What in the actual fuck?
https://supporters.eff.org/donate
Just donated.
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The court's opinion is classified. The DOJ is trying to block a FOIA suit filed by the EFF to release the opinion. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/government-says-secret...
Court opinions can be classified? What in the actual fuck?
In ex Yugoslavia we had secret laws, published by secret official journal and enforced by secret courts.
So you could easily get persecuted for breaking the law that you were prohibited to know it even existed.
The same was going on in east Germany and other socialist countries.
I warmly recommend watching The Lives of Others (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/) to those who haven't seen it yet.
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's my understanding that the secret court ruled the primary legal justification for PRISM (FISA Section 702) as unconstitutional. The Justice Department is trying to keep that ruling as secret as possible. [1] So, really, what would they do? [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/government-says-secret...
How can they rule the justification as unconstitutiona when the judges were giving court orders under that justification? More broadly though, I don't understand how you can possibly have secret courts. Justice not only must be done but must be seen to be done, otherwise its not justice.
Secret courts are not about justice.
They are about masking injustice behind the veil of "law".
Since US is a country with long tradition of rule of law. The easiest way of subverting the rule of law is by subverting the concept of a judge and of a court.
There.
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Court opinions can be classified? What in the actual fuck?
In ex Yugoslavia we had secret laws, published by secret official journal and enforced by secret courts. So you could easily get persecuted for breaking the law that you were prohibited to know it even existed. The same was going on in east Germany and other socialist countries. I warmly recommend watching The Lives of Others ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ ) to those who haven't seen it yet.
My surprise was directed at the fact that people have this in a system advertised as democratic. I am quite well-acquainted with cases like those you quote.
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
What makes you think these companies are going to lose any substantial number of customers? Most of the anger here is directed at the government, and it is only a small minority of people who even are angry about this. Only a very tiny minority of people will actually stop using Google or Facebook because of this incident.
In the short term nothing will change for Google, Facebook etc. But i think you are underestimating the longer term reaction from members of this community. The cloud in its current form is dead. Google's goal of collecting the world's information is a dead end if everything ends up in the hands of the NSA. New user data models with better privacy will eventually be introduced by one or more startups that could be a…
>The cloud in its current form is dead.
I've heard several people say this... I find that... unlikely.
Do you really see the type of people who use facebook; the type of people who buy things that are advertised online, well, do you see them changing their behavior? I'm pretty sure most of them are okay with being watched; otherwise they wouldn't be on facebook to begin with.
And those are the users that matter.
Re: Why didn't tech company leaders blow the whistle?
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Court opinions can be classified? What in the actual fuck?
In ex Yugoslavia we had secret laws, published by secret official journal and enforced by secret courts. So you could easily get persecuted for breaking the law that you were prohibited to know it even existed. The same was going on in east Germany and other socialist countries. I warmly recommend watching The Lives of Others ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ ) to those who haven't seen it yet.
Amusing that the US claimed victory in the cold war and then ends up adopting all their "enemies'" worst stuff.