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People with nothing to hide

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Re: People with nothing to hide

#141

Post by venomsnake »

rmc wrote: post #60
ck2 wrote: post #39

Think about how the NSA helped stop all the killings and maimings at the boston bombing. Oh wait, they didn't - from two super stupid criminals not even trying to hide what they were planning. So WTF good are they doing for all the damage they've done to our society. NSA has become just like the TSA, completely useless theater that hassles everyone and accomplishes nothing. Just wait until they can park hundreds of d…

Select bias. You don't know what they did stop.

Well ... the day after Osama was killed it was all in the news and all positive. If they stopped something on similar scale they would not have reasons to hide it.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#142

Post by johnchristopher »

thomseddon wrote: post #106
john_flintstone wrote: post #78

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

One important thing to recognize is that: "You can read my text/call logs" !== "You and the rest of the world can know everything about me" So someone saying they "have nothing to hide" doesn't really mean they would answer all the above question publicly, but rather there is no electronic record/evidence of anything they know they want to keep private. And, as another point of discussion, whilst the matters raised i…

> One important thing to recognize is that: "You can read my text/call logs" !== "You and the rest of the world can know everything about me"

No, "having nothing to hide" means exactly that. Especially since we live in an age where everyone can google anyone.

> So someone saying they "have nothing to hide" doesn't really mean they would answer all the above question publicly, but rather there is no electronic record/evidence of anything they know they want to keep private.

"Nothing to hide" on the internet or IRL implies everything of one's private and public life, you can't change its meaning back to exclude some kind of private life (defined as what isn't electronically stored) after the facts.

"having nothing to hide" is the fallacious moral stance used by Schmidt when he says "maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place".

Re: People with nothing to hide

#143

Post by simgidacav »

bad_user wrote: post #134
thomseddon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One important thing to recognize is that: "You can read my text/call logs" !== "You and the rest of the world can know everything about me" So someone saying they "have nothing to hide" doesn't really mean they would answer all the above question publicly, but rather there is no electronic record/evidence of anything they know they want to keep private. And, as another point of discussion, whilst the matters raised i…

One other important thing to recognize: many people have leaked confidential/private info, even without them realizing it. Example: the SMS messages I send to my wife tend to contain more sensitive info than the Facebook messages I publish for the whole world to see. This is because I trust my wife and when she's the sole recipient of a message, I tend to be more honest and open-minded with her than I am with the res…

...then they say "hey, our server with all your confidential information has been cracked, and we are leaking".

Now your private info is public.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#144

Post by goostavos »

corresation wrote: post #129
ck2 wrote: post #39

Think about how the NSA helped stop all the killings and maimings at the boston bombing. Oh wait, they didn't - from two super stupid criminals not even trying to hide what they were planning. So WTF good are they doing for all the damage they've done to our society. NSA has become just like the TSA, completely useless theater that hassles everyone and accomplishes nothing. Just wait until they can park hundreds of d…

We have no idea what they actually did prevent, and a single case where they failed demonstrates little. Further, pointing out the failure in the Boston bombing is a poor counterpoint given that to many it would suggest that increased surveillance is necessary, not less. I'm not American, so I can't really speak to the domestic angle. I am immensely concerned about the foreign angle, however -- if the US government c…

>>We have no idea what they actually did prevent

Ugh.. what terrible reasoning. The absence of data is not somehow possible data.

>pointing out the failure in the Boston bombing is a poor counterpoint given that to many it would suggest that increased surveillance is necessary, not less.

It's actually a rather good counter point. It shows that the FBI/NSA/big brother already can't process all of the data it has in a meaningful amount of time. How does adding more data to sift through help? Unless there's some benevolent, magical AI that can pick terrorist patterns out of a colossal sea of data, I fail to see how more data is the solution.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#145

Post by Akathos »

gbog wrote: post #67
davisr wrote: post #8

I'd love to see digital privacy taught as part of the curriculum in public school computer classes. If every student learned their rights when they learned how to type, these fools with 'nothing to hide' would think a bit deeper about all the information (including the info that may be used against them in a court of law) they've posted online over the past 10-15 years.

Yes. This should be a part of education. Maybe it is already in some parts of Europe that are more sensitive with privay breaches than US (France? Germany?). Anyway, I live very far from my youngest brother, and have only few occasion to chat with him. Last time I felt the need to check his awareness of the matter (he is on Facebook and has the right age to share pics of drunk friends), and was happy to hear that he…

It's not, our governments would love something like PRISM. The "I don't have anything to hide" argument is going strong over here too.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#146

Post by icebraining »

Ygg2 wrote: post #131
john_flintstone wrote: post #78

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

You can simply ask them do you go everywhere naked? If not then they have something to hide. Literally.

Clothes serve many purposes beyond hiding your body. Protection from dirt and weather conditions, social signaling, etc.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#147

Post by lmirosevic »

john_flintstone wrote: post #78

Questions for people with nothing to hide: 1. Have you ever had an abortion? 2. Have you ever cheated on your husband / wife? 3. Are you currently looking for a new job? 4. Have you ever being diagnosed with a mental illness? 5. Are you currently on anti-depressants? 6. Were you ever sexually abused as a child? 7. Have you ever fancied someone of the same sex? 8. Have you ever had sex with someone of the same sex? 9.…

Yes. And because you know the questions to ask means you have too. And so since we both have it makes it OK.

Re: People with nothing to hide

#149

Post by techsupporter »

khuey wrote: post #79
jedbrown wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the choice needs to be free, not coerced. Programs like Global Entry, TSA Pre, and CLEAR are examples of (minor) coercion, inconveniencing those who do not sign up.

Global Entry/PreCheck/Clear are pretty benign. The only information Global Entry requires that the government won't already have from tax records, DMV records, border records, etc for most citizens are fingerprints. I don't see it as much different than a drivers license/passport requiring a picture (for most people that's going to be the only way the government gets a picture of them on file).

Hell, Texas even fingerprints you for a driver license or state-issued ID card and has since the late 1960s. Now they even get thumbprints on renewals. (Transportation Code, 541.142(b))

Re: People with nothing to hide

#150

Post by tekacs »

simgidacav wrote: post #143
bad_user wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other important thing to recognize: many people have leaked confidential/private info, even without them realizing it. Example: the SMS messages I send to my wife tend to contain more sensitive info than the Facebook messages I publish for the whole world to see. This is because I trust my wife and when she's the sole recipient of a message, I tend to be more honest and open-minded with her than I am with the res…

...then they say "hey, our server with all your confidential information has been cracked, and we are leaking". Now your private info is public.

As much as it might feel nice to make suggestions such as this, it's probably worth remembering that this sort of data is probably gapped from the external network (no data flow outward).

If anybody knows (and has experience) well enough about keeping data safe (indeed through doing quite the opposite), it's these guys. Whilst it's well established that in software there's not much we can do to avoid bugs and other vulnerabilities, there's rather something to be said for practical operational security in making it almost impossible for data of this form (and especially volume) to be leaked - good luck trying to get data across an air gap or indeed something monitored physically to the extent that this all is.

(caveat: spies and other infiltrators would perhaps, in certain circumstances be in a position to leak this sort of stuff - there is only so much that can be done to avoid this, of course (oh - and also others on the inside willing to leak information))

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