281–290 of 298 posts
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Even though this is an actual conspiracy between the government and several large Internet companies?
> Even though this is an actual conspiracy between the government and several large Internet companies? If it's a conspiracy, what's the common goal? There's nothing in in for the companies involved. You might just as well say rape is a conspiracy between the rapist and the victim.
Once we all believe, the rabbit hole is an abyss.
Look at the two writeups (Zuckerberg's and Page's) side by side. Each has 4 paragraphs. Each of the pairs of paragraphs addresses the same thing. 1st paragraph: we wanted to respond to these claims. 2nd paragraph: never heard of PRISM, don't give direct access. 3rd paragraph: each request goes through legal channels. 4th paragraph: encourage governments to be more transparent. Terrifying. EDIT: It gets worse. Here's…
Look at the two writeups (Zuckerberg's and Page's) side by side. Each has 4 paragraphs. Each of the pairs of paragraphs addresses the same thing. 1st paragraph: we wanted to respond to these claims. 2nd paragraph: never heard of PRISM, don't give direct access. 3rd paragraph: each request goes through legal channels. 4th paragraph: encourage governments to be more transparent. Terrifying. EDIT: It gets worse. Here's…
Wouldn't Occam's Razor instead suggest that since the Page statement was much earlier that Zuckerberg or whoever wrote this (probably not Mark) just copied the style of Page's statement semi-intentionally? They'd have almost certainly have read it.
Look at the two writeups (Zuckerberg's and Page's) side by side. Each has 4 paragraphs. Each of the pairs of paragraphs addresses the same thing. 1st paragraph: we wanted to respond to these claims. 2nd paragraph: never heard of PRISM, don't give direct access. 3rd paragraph: each request goes through legal channels. 4th paragraph: encourage governments to be more transparent. Terrifying. EDIT: It gets worse. Here's…
The implication that there is some central figure behind this giving these companies scripts to read meets the most common flaw of governmental conspiracy theories. It requires the government to be simultaneously incredibly competent and incompetent. If the NSA was able to keep this project under wraps for so long with the number of people involved, I think they would be smart enough to at least slightly alter the wo…
It's even possible that the companies coordinated their press releases for the very purpose of raising questions. We shouldn't assume they are all isolated from one another. It's far more likely that there is some form of communication going on between them, or at least between the high officials.
In essence, this looks very much like a coordinated effort to rebel against a gag order without actually crossing the line and putting oneself in jeopardy. Read between the lines.
Look at the two writeups (Zuckerberg's and Page's) side by side. Each has 4 paragraphs. Each of the pairs of paragraphs addresses the same thing. 1st paragraph: we wanted to respond to these claims. 2nd paragraph: never heard of PRISM, don't give direct access. 3rd paragraph: each request goes through legal channels. 4th paragraph: encourage governments to be more transparent. Terrifying. EDIT: It gets worse. Here's…
I call convergent evolution on this one. A convex optimization problem. It's the simplest explanation. They need a broadly accessible response, so that gives like what 2000 words? By the time you account for the various pits of contradiction, handwash to some sufficiently nebulous concept of indirect access; all while the government breathes down your back, the outraged crowd bustles for explanations and a gaggle of…
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Option #6: PRISM is the NSA-end of an interface to each named company to help automate data collection. The company still grabs the data, still runs each request through their legal team, etc. But there's no email or fax needed, requests arrive via something like a JSON request and are automatically returned to NSA once the company looks up the requested data. Company doesn't know NSA calls it PRISM. As far as the co…
There is no way that this is just some nice interface for court ordered collections. Watch the Washington Post video with the (Pulitzer Prize) author Barton Gellman. Gellman says that "We did hold back quite a bit from this story" and then later goes on to explain the reason the companies joined ... "The law does provide that they can give access and a secret surveillance court can make them give access, but in a sit…
They have to five access because the law demands it, but they also make it easy to use for the agency to use. Which for example Twitter does not do.
If the other theory about ISP level data collection would be true, it would make no sense that Twitter and Dropbox are missing and not part of PRISM.
I would like to believe these reports from Google [1] and Facebook [2], but someone is not telling the truth. There is evidence that directly contradicts their stories (i.e. The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of t…
There is no contradiction if you accept the suggestion from http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/001431.html that the NSA got access to this information by planting moles at target companies who then created back doors for the NSA to use. This would be reasonably easy for the NSA to do, relatively hard for companies to catch, and perfectly explains all published facts.
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Precisely this. It's really sad to see the sheer volume of conspiracy-theorizing going on around HN.
It's also sad to see the immediate dismissal of alternate story lines even after this discovery. A conspiracy was just uncovered... and we're concerned about conspiracy-theorizing? The word itself has been dragged through the mud to the point of becoming a dismissing scare tactic, it basically translates to "crazy person, crazy ideas". Basically, if your story doesn't match the official conspiracy theory given by the…
No, just one that accepts there is most certainly things going on behind closed doors the public is not privy to, which is all the definition a conspiracy is.
People say, "you are a conspiracy theorist" or a "tin foil hat wearer" in an attempt to discredit what you say. The government doesn't need paid goons to sleuth on the internet to defend them, their are armys of people just waiting to comment on how stupid we all are for challenging the government positions/laws. The battle is already lost in the mind of the average american.
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You don't get to be CEO unless you can learn to lie & keep secrets. OTOH, I'm more skeptical about the implementation side. Have you ever set up a feed between two different organizations that needs to transmit a massive amount of data in real-time? It's an immensely complicated undertaking requiring a whole team on both sides, with managers, engineers, techwriters, QA, and support staff. It seems a little unbelievab…
Yeah, there is very little chance of CEOs leaking. The obligation they feel most is their obligation to the interests of their company. It definitely wouldn't be in a company's interests to rebel against the government of the country in which the company is headquartered. Implementation side would definitely be very difficult, but you could screen the candidates for those who are sympathetic toward it. Ensure they un…
There's also the issue of how to hide the source code (to my knowledge, both Google and Facebook use one source repository for the whole company, to which virtually everyone has access). This can be gotten around - I'm sure that there are private repositories off to the side that you could use to build a binary - but this is yet another integration point that could be discovered. (Eg. some SRE notices that network bandwidth is high for a DC, traces it to a machine, notices the machine is consuming a large amount of CPU, gets root and runs 'top', and suddenly notices an unknown process siphoning off all data. At this point, how could they not assume their network is being attacked - because that's really what this is, the U.S. government hacking into the company's DCs - and pull the alarm? So all the SREs, abuse teams, internal security, etc. would have to be briefed, which is small compared to the whole company but still a huge surface area for a top-secret project.)