President Obama’s Dragnet • Hacker News Board

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#121

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:09 PM UTC

vijayboyapati wrote: post #23

Question: At what point does the average statist admit that the libertarians (s)he has been belittling for so many years as tin-foil hat crackpots were far more savvy about the nature of the state than they were? Answer: never

Oh stfu about libertarian bullshit. Show me another first world nation anywhere on the planet that is libertarian. Show me any libertarian nation of any kind that isn't awful. You know the US concept of "libertarian" doesn't exist outside the US? That's because the rest of the world realizes it's useless.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#122

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:11 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

Uh, you realize leaving doesn't change your tax situation, right? You still have to file every year and you still may be liable for taxes. Also, if you live in a "tax heaven" then you have to report any bank account you have signing authority over (including any pension, etc.). So don't plan on being a stock trader in your new country, that's not going to happen. Don't plan on having a bank account with any non-international bank because they won't take americans.

BTW, the US is the only country in the world to behave this way (well, perhaps NK but that's not exactly a favorable comparison, is it).

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#123

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:13 PM UTC

youngerdryas wrote: post #103

sneak wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I emigrated five years ago. It's tough, no fuckin' foolin'. The alternative is to go to bed every night knowing that a double-digit percentage of your value and productivity that day went to fund building bombs and buying and installing fiber splitters. I just couldn't do it any longer. FWIW, I have none of those circumstances you describe, and it was relatively easy, practically speaking— and I moved to Germany, one…

I assume you got your national ID card and register at the police station every time you move.

You think the US doesn't do this? They don't make you register when you move because they'll update their databases when you file your taxes.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#124

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:15 PM UTC

Taylorious wrote: post #31

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

I'm sure many weak and cowardly people from the American Revolution said the same thing. It may seem hopeless but people (not just Americans) need to stand up put their governments in check. We live in a very unique time and have unique challenges that people in the past did not have to face, but that doesn't mean things are hopeless. Governments go through phases of corruption and abuse of power, it is up to citizen…

People from the American Revolution took up arms, and many of them died. Are you ready to do that? I'm not. If not then leavings probably a more realistic option. Call me a coward if you like, but I've already escaped. How many people have joined your militia so far?

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#125

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:16 PM UTC

dkulchenko wrote: post #19

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

Leave where? Everyone always says that, but where would be better (mainly in terms of civil liberties)?

A lot of places are better in terms of civil liberties. Most of western Europe (though stear clear of the UK).

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#126

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:18 PM UTC

bcoates wrote: post #47

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

That worked so well for Anwar al-Awlaki.

Well, you might want to avoid 3rd world shit holes, and joining terrorist groups.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#127

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:19 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #90

khuey wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't vote with your tax dollars unless you renounce your citizenship. And that feels like abdicating responsibility to me.

False. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei... My line 14 has been zero for several years. I am a US-born American citizen.

That's only because Germany has some of the highest taxes in the world (can be upwards of 50%). Try moving to Lichtenstein (~10% income tax) and see how long you don't pay taxes.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#128

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:20 PM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #52

cookingrobot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true in practice. You always need to file taxes to the US no matter where you live, but you only pay to the US if you paid less overseas (you pay the difference, you don't double pay). Almost any county you'd want to live in (except tax havens) will have higher taxes than the US.

You have to file taxes for 5-10 years even if you renounce your citizenship.

Only if they decide you did so for tax reasons (which is just a formula they apply to your earnings and assets. hint: if you're going this route, do it fast as these numbers drop every year).

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#129

Post by flyinRyan » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:21 PM UTC

hippich wrote: post #22

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

Any suggestions, where to go?

Do a search on first world countries. Most of them will be fine.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#130

Post by grappler » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 6:21 PM UTC

khuey wrote: post #38

mtoddh wrote: post #25

From the article: "The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said today that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future." That second sentence is the one that really caught my eye: She said today that the au…

Feinstein is one of the worst people in the Senate on civil liberties issues, and one of the foremost advocates of the national security state.

Feinstein's constituency is Silicon Valley. And while we know all about the Google/Facebook/Apple/Y-Combinator silicon valley, there's also that other Silicon Valley.

http://vimeo.com/15992737