Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons • Hacker News Board

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#251

Post by eropple » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 4:43 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #245

eropple wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The topic of prison rape is a joke that people as a whole feel comfortable laughing about in public . It is undeniably normative.

Joking about things that are in despicable in reality is commonplace. The TV show "Family Guy" features a pedophile as a main character. Do you think this means the audience or producers feel this is normal and acceptable?

He's not presented in a positive or socially acceptable light. He's funny (to some) because he's transgressive.

People laugh at prison rape because those guys are bad so rape is okay.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#252

Post by ceautery » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 11:38 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #238

eropple wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when the socioeconomic game is rigged against you and has been for most of the last 400 years of American history? I mean, yeah, poverty is without question a factor--but stopping there feels disingenuous to me. Why are they poor? is then a relevant question, and I think that "because of the racism of old white men" is not the worst explanation I've heard.

OK, but then that's a different issue. It isn't racism in the criminal justice system, and it isn't the criminal justice system's failure. It's the failure of the rest of society. And even if it is racism originally, it's plausible that it's "because of the racism of dead white men." Two centuries ago they kidnapped millions of Africans and brought them here as slaves. Then they were freed without anyone offering to…

Racism of old white men isn't my conclusion. It's been well studied, e.g.: http://www.naacpldf.org/files/case_issue/Duane%20Buck-FINAL%... http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/arwhite/files/fallernathanw... http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1800840

Also, your example of median incomes by race is a grand example of exactly what I'm talking about; thanks for that.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#253

Post by ddonnelly » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 5:17 PM UTC

john_b wrote: post #180

moxie wrote: post #140

Many of the structures that make up our society (jails, taxes, laws, rulers) were not "our" creation, but the creation of kings. When those kings were deposed, rather than abolishing the structures those kings had created, they were instead largely preserved and put under "democratic" control. It could be that this was a mistake: that there's something structurally intrinsic to the instruments of monarchies that can…

In some ways the prison system in the U.S. seems to be worse precisely because it is supported by a democratic society. If prisoners are tortured under a king, their barbaric treatment can easily be associated with the cruelty of the king. This connection creates a risk of revolt, and a sensible king will be mindful of it. In a democratic society with a Kafkaesque prison system, torture of prisoners is not as easily…

Preferential voting helps a lot to resolve this problem.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#254

Post by geetar » Fri, Jun 07, 2013, 7:37 PM UTC

mercurial wrote: post #156

AFrench wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French prison system is severely underfunded leading to very poor living conditions, but there is none of this attitude that it's OK for people to be raped if they're criminals. The statistics for rape in US prisons are absolutely appalling; I have never seen such data for French prisons, but I would guess, or at least hope, that it is much less common.

Not only is the French prison system severely underfunded, as you say, but it has been consistently so for years, despite repeated warnings from the EU. This has been compounded by recent laws handing out longer prison sentences for more crimes (but obviously not following through with a matching increase in funding for the prison system). As very few prisoners actually vote, this horrid blight on France's human righ…

Is it common for convicts to hold the right to vote in Europe, unlike in the US?

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#255

Post by w_t_payne » Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 10:33 AM UTC

rthomas6 wrote: post #100

_account wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know that the laws so clearly stated that black people are singled out to be tortured. Can you provide at least one reference to this atrocity? [I'm guessing you can't]

I do not agree with the hyperbole of the OP, but there are a disproportionate amount of black people in prison, black people get on average longer sentences for the same crimes, and drugs forms more commonly used by blacks carry longer sentences than the same drug in other forms (crack vs. cocaine). Are black people singled out to be tortured? No. Is the US prison system racist? The evidence points in that direction.

Sorry about the hyperbole. As you probably guessed, I was lightly trolling in order to provoke a response. Whilst we do better than the long-term historic average, our societies are still deeply flawed, whilst we, as individuals (myself included) sit idly by slinging insults from the sidelines.