Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

motherjones.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 255 posts

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#151

Post by kybernetyk »

Confusion wrote: post #135
kybernetyk wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain. My source is someone I know who was imprisoned in Aachen, NRW.

Reading up a bit, I note that it does happen, but under specific circumstances. It certainly isn't common practice. In Germany people in prison are usually encouraged to have a job and most work fairly regular work weeks, when not following courses. Rehabilitation and reintegration into society is taken seriously there. See e.g. http://www.internationalpenalandpenitentiaryfoundation.org/S... Germany.pdf. An excerpt f…

The PDF you quote describes the intended ideal conditions. In Germany also every prisoner is entitled to have his own cell and each cell has to have a separated toilet area. But in practice prisons are full, cells are occupied with 2 or 3 prisoners and toilets are only separated by a plank.

Finding work in most prisons can also be pretty hard. There are certain jobs that are always in demand (welder, carpenter, etc.) but if you're a simple academic and not a craftsman you can only hope to get one of the lower level jobs like librarian, kitchen help, etc. That paired with prison overpopulation can make getting a job pretty hard.

The problem is that the prison system in Germany is heavily underfunded and that a good portion of the prison buildings are very old (a few date even back to the late 19th century). Germany would need many new prison buildings with humane sanitary standards but you don't get points in the election for spending tax money on the well being of prisoners.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#153

Post by Camillo »

bdunbar wrote: post #144
AFrench wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French prison system is severely underfunded leading to very poor living conditions, but there is none of this attitude that it's OK for people to be raped if they're criminals. The statistics for rape in US prisons are absolutely appalling; I have never seen such data for French prisons, but I would guess, or at least hope, that it is much less common.

> none of this attitude This is not an actual prevailing attitude in the US.

Yes it is.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#154

Post by sukuriant »

mcherm wrote: post #105
scrapcode wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

> I know plenty of unmotivated individuals that would love to sit around with a bunch of other lazy-asses and be fed 3 meals a day. For free. Don't you? No. I know absolutely no people who would choose to be put in prison simply because they would be fed. I cannot imagine a wealthy society (and make no bones about it, our society is wealthy enough that people can be fed) which would permit that. > It has to strike on…

> No. I know absolutely no people who would choose to be put in prison simply because they would be fed. I cannot imagine a wealthy society (and make no bones about it, our society is wealthy enough that people can be fed) which would permit that.

Have you seen The Green Mile? I think that's the name of the movie, where the lead character contemplating committing a crime just so life would be easier again.

Some people do chose prison; or, enough of their friends are in prison that it's not actually seen as a 'bad thing' for them to be in there. Add to that how we as a society feel about people that have come from prison and are a felon; and sometimes, life may actually be easier for some people on the inside.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#155

Post by lawnchair_larry »

After reading this article, keep in mind that Andrew Auernheimer is also in a SHU, for having someone update his twitter account on his behalf.

And the reason he is in prison in the first place is for changing an integer on the end of a URL.

Do these punishments make sense to anyone?

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#156

Post by mercurial »

AFrench wrote: post #91
InclinedPlane wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visibility for one. The French prison system is horrible, the British prison system is also pretty bad. Beyond that I'd have to blame the war on drugs and general societal attitudes. The general attitude seems to be that once you have been adjudicated a "bad guy" and are put into the prison population anything that happens to you is fair game.

The French prison system is severely underfunded leading to very poor living conditions, but there is none of this attitude that it's OK for people to be raped if they're criminals. The statistics for rape in US prisons are absolutely appalling; I have never seen such data for French prisons, but I would guess, or at least hope, that it is much less common.

Not only is the French prison system severely underfunded, as you say, but it has been consistently so for years, despite repeated warnings from the EU. This has been compounded by recent laws handing out longer prison sentences for more crimes (but obviously not following through with a matching increase in funding for the prison system).

As very few prisoners actually vote, this horrid blight on France's human rights track record isn't going to change in a hurry.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#158

Post by mercurial »

vasco wrote: post #120
khafra wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prison has to be scary. It has to strike one as the number one place that you do not want to go. It's the other ultimate consequence, along side of death. I can't imagine this world if it wasn't. If your theory were accurate, countries like Norway--with its extremely humane prisons ( http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.htm... ) would be crime-ridden hellholes. But Norway's homicide rate is 1/10…

You cannot make that assumption, there can be other factors that lower the rate to 1/10th and without those it could actually be 10x just because "prison isn't scary". I'm not taking any sides but you can't make that jump without controlling every other variable.

You're correct. However, some related variables like a low recidivism rate check out. Not to mention the same phenomenons in other Nordic countries.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#159

Post by mercurial »

irahul wrote: post #64
maeon3 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the prisons were focused on fixing the root problem in the criminals, as if they were some sort of refuge for edification, conditioning and correction then a large body of the homeless would commit a strategic crime in order to get there so they can at least get three meals and an opportunity to move up in the world from rock-bottom. Like slavery in the 18th century, prisons are a necessary evil to punish people w…

> If the prisons were focused on fixing the root problem in the criminals, as if they were some sort of refuge for edification, conditioning and correction then a large body of the homeless would commit a strategic crime in order to get there so they can at least get three meals and an opportunity to move up in the world from rock-bottom. 1. Prisons as correctional center far outweighs some homeless guy pick-pocketin…

> The belief that "criminals" deserve what they get is how all sorts of draconian laws come into being. When the govt. says it tortured a few alleged terrorists, and you stand on the sidelines and cheer, you don't realize you are being instrumental in your own destruction. Tomorrow it can be you getting water-boarded, and the rest of us "good citizens" will stand on the sidelines and cheer.

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#160

Post by estavaro »

rdl wrote: post #71

I think I'd rather spend 3 years in solitary (given adequate books, ability to write, etc.) than in general prison population. I accept that I'm probably an outlier, though.

And that would be anti-social behavior by itself, right? :-)

Other people think that inmates are anti-social people. But were they always anti-social? Or just some of the time? And how is anti-social measured? Do extroverts make less anti-social people? And if so, does it matter that many inmates are also extroverts?

Bureaucracy seems to be incredibly painful in the Justice system. Decisions get made. To reverse those decisions it becomes a problem in itself. To err is human? To persist on it is stupid. Or is it just a bureaucratic mare?

Post reply on HN