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President Obama’s Dragnet

nytimes.com

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Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#31

Post by Taylorious »

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

I'm sure many weak and cowardly people from the American Revolution said the same thing. It may seem hopeless but people (not just Americans) need to stand up put their governments in check. We live in a very unique time and have unique challenges that people in the past did not have to face, but that doesn't mean things are hopeless. Governments go through phases of corruption and abuse of power, it is up to citizens to put them back in balance.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#32

Post by khuey »

sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

Can't vote with your tax dollars unless you renounce your citizenship. And that feels like abdicating responsibility to me.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#33

Post by Amygaz »

kai-zer wrote: post #27
emin_gun_sirer wrote: post #13

This article would have been stronger if it had contained a bit of introspection. Why did it require a UK paper to uncover this operation?

UK reporter can't be subpoenaed? edit: nevermind, guess the reporter is an American...

Because he knows where to get good fish and chips?

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#34

Post by bdcravens »

joering2 wrote: post #26
dkulchenko wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leave where? Everyone always says that, but where would be better (mainly in terms of civil liberties)?

Leave to the smaller country. Like Saint Lucie, for example. Any smaller in size and as result less economically/technologically developed country where technology is in bare use, not to mention in broad use by country's government. Ultimately, there won't be a rock or an inch of earth left without some satellite taking high-res 60 stills per second and some sort of sonic device taking 3-d snapshots of a sound-field.…

I can't speak to Saint Lucie specifically, but I always wonder the same thing when someone mentions a specific country: are they speaking to rights afforded to everyone who comes in, or just citizens? How long until one is made whole in that country?

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#35

Post by longone »

emin_gun_sirer wrote: post #13

This article would have been stronger if it had contained a bit of introspection. Why did it require a UK paper to uncover this operation?

I agree. Investigative reporting in the US has been on a downturn for the last 15 years or so. Many newspapers have had to cut back on resources because of declining readership and its hard to expect decent investigative news from any of the network news stations because they are just pandering to their own audiences for ratings and whatnot. It also doesn't help the president Obama and his administration have been incredibly hard on journalists and those who leak information as we have learned over the last month. Even though it was the Guardian that was the paper that reported it, Glenn Greenwald, an American, is the author of the original article. Either way, I'm just happy this has come to the public eye and has confirmed many suspensions. I hope that this rallies enough support so either amendments to the Patriot Act can be made it can be repealed entirely.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#36

Post by sneak »

jlgreco wrote: post #20
dkulchenko wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leave where? Everyone always says that, but where would be better (mainly in terms of civil liberties)?

Yeah, leaving doesn't work. The solution is sadly not that simple. But neither does voting. How could voting work when the public is not even suppose to be aware of this sort of thing? This sort of secrecy is incompatible with democracy. Without being able to make an informed decision the best you can do is vote for the candidate that assures you that they will have a transparent administration.... oh wait.

Yes, it works great. I know because I tried it.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#37

Post by cobrausn »

tsotha wrote: post #17
jpdoctor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When presented with new data, some people change course. I am hoping Obama falls into that class.

New data? Do you really think this is news to Obama?

Maybe the 'new data' in this case is how we react to finding out about the existence of the programs.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#38

Post by khuey »

mtoddh wrote: post #25

From the article: "The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said today that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future." That second sentence is the one that really caught my eye: She said today that the au…

Feinstein is one of the worst people in the Senate on civil liberties issues, and one of the foremost advocates of the national security state.

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#39

Post by cpeterso »

khuey wrote: post #32
sneak wrote: post #16

Keep paying US taxes and voting. That should work. (But seriously. It's time. Pack your belongings and leave. Vote with your tax dollars, please.)

Can't vote with your tax dollars unless you renounce your citizenship. And that feels like abdicating responsibility to me.

The Noble American Tradition of Tax Resistance:

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-04-11/article/...

Re: President Obama’s Dragnet

#40

Post by Umalu »

kai-zer wrote: post #27
emin_gun_sirer wrote: post #13

This article would have been stronger if it had contained a bit of introspection. Why did it require a UK paper to uncover this operation?

UK reporter can't be subpoenaed? edit: nevermind, guess the reporter is an American...

The "UK reporter" is Glenn Greenwald, an American: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
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