Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

teslamotors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 136 posts

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#81

Post by notdrunkatall »

flinty wrote: post #50
cstross wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this word "allow"? Who forces car manufacturers to go through a dealer network? Or rather, who forbids them from selling direct to the public? Doesn't that constitute unfair restraint on trade? I'm serious here. (Non-American speaking.) Is there some law that mandates that cars can only/must be sold through dealers?

There literally is a law in every state that prevents direct sales. Check out this planet money podcast about this very topic http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-...

I think the point is that law should change.

Maybe it actually protected consumers three decades ago, but now, consumers have access to more than enough information to make those kinds of decisions for themselves.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#82

Post by bob13579 »

jokoon wrote: post #71
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it a Governmet loan? I mean like Government taking money from the competent people who know what they are doing, and giving it to ucompetent, hey here you have money so you can compete with competent guys using their money! I know that's the model in the US banking now. Didn't realize that it works for car manufacturers too.

I really don't understand what is the problem here. Sometimes the market can't do things properly, and there, tesla motor is a great example. A consumer market is not always great when you want to make new things, because both consumers AND current manufacturers will say they are happy with what they have, and won't see your initiative like a good thing. Consumers absolutely can't have a say in anything because they'…

Umm, no. Taxpayers are still subsidizing $7,500 per Tesla sold.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#83

Post by bob13579 »

norswap wrote: post #49
qwanzi77 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many asked. Only few were given those loans. Why not give the money to research universities instead? Wouldn't that be a lot more fair? We could all exploit the research, instead of just a few well-connected billionaires and corporations with lots of resources.

I think the aim was to make electric cars a practical reality, and somehow I don't see academia do that.

The critical component, by far, is the battery. If you find ways to build a better battery, electric cars are a practical reality. Academia is perfect for battery research.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#84

Post by dhx »

Around minute 25 there appears to be a very awkward waiting-for-the-Steve-Jobs-applause moment after Elon explains the updated navigation system. A few more announcements are made without applause and then finally, just before the 31 minute mark, applause is finally handed out when the launch date of the Model X is announced. I hope Elon didn't feel disappointed with himself or the audience. Applause is cheap. The questions that followed demonstrated audience buy-in more than any amount of applause could ever achieve.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#85

Post by bob13579 »

justin66 wrote: post #65
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it a Governmet loan? I mean like Government taking money from the competent people who know what they are doing, and giving it to ucompetent, hey here you have money so you can compete with competent guys using their money! I know that's the model in the US banking now. Didn't realize that it works for car manufacturers too.

> s it a Governmet loan? I mean like Government taking money from the competent people who know what they are doing, and giving it to ucompetent, hey here you have money so you can compete with competent guys using their money! Your objection, when applied to the specifics, would seem to make Tesla "ucompetent" and folks like GM both competent and untainted by government support. This thinking has some problems.

Because we're subsidizing inefficient actors already, that makes it okay to subsidize other actors? Why subsidize any of the inefficiency at all? Tesla is certainly not curbing carbon emissions. More efficient combustible engines however are doing that, despite the lack of subsidies.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#86

Post by bob13579 »

saalweachter wrote: post #60
qwanzi77 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incumbent manufacturers have to go through dealers. Allowing Tesla to bypass dealers wouldn't be fair to other car manufacturers. "Tesla repay a big federal loan a few weeks ago, many years before they had to?" Why does this matter? They were given a large loan. That large loan gave them a large runway to have one profitable quarter, which allowed them to pay back the loan by issuing shares and bonds. Another car man…

You don't need to be fair to incumbent manufacturers. They're the incumbents, they already have a bajillion advantages. Aren't the incumbent manufacturers the ones who lobbied for those dealership laws in the first place, to raise the bar for entry into the market place? (And if not, haven't they had year with piles of cash beyond our wildest dreams to buy off legislators and get the law changed?) I am perfectly happ…

No, if you study the automotive industry, you'll see that those car manufacturers have been trying to get around those dealers by building their own dealerships (which are quickly shut) or selling their cars online (which again are prevented). They're not lobbying for dealerships in countries where you can sell cars directly to the consumer. Take Brazil or Germany for instance.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#87

Post by ankitml »

eightyone wrote: post #21
[deleted] wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I think his point is that government shouldn't pick winners and losers with taxpayer money.

looking at fairness in retrospect. Musk justified the loan. He built the damn thing, an (possibly) eco friendly, not dependent on fossil fuel car that people love.

back in my country we have our own electric car company, which have been able to do the thing, but they havent been able to get people support.

Musk was able to do that.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#88

Post by bob13579 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #73
bob13579 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay to give them half a billion dollars in loans because others got billions? Why not be outraged at everyone involved? The industry is colossally inefficient.

Inefficient when it comes to innovating, yes. In any industry dominated by powerful incumbents and where the startup capital costs are extremely high, you do need outside intervention (I.e. a subsidy in the form of a loan) to help newcomers.

So any startup that competes in the pharmaceutical sector or biotechnology industry should be given hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer-funded loans?

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#89

Post by babby »

pavs wrote: post #78
joshuamerrill wrote: post #2

I was there today. The emotion was shared and felt by everyone in the room. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like this could ultimately become a serious free speech issue. Edit: I ask a very dry question at the 45 minute mark. I'm pretty easy to spot because I'm wearing Google Glass.

Not to sound mean (and people usually say that when they know that they could come out as mean), but for some reason that reminded me of people who walks around with bluetooth headset and talking to themselves, surrounded by a lot of people. Its just me though. Otherwise your question was interesting and unpredictable, almost all the other questions were something I would have thought about asking. You know the usual…

Couldnt help but think "Wouldn't mind seeing his Glass video feed" though.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#90

Post by bob13579 »

scythe wrote: post #75
qwanzi77 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. And why should it matter? Tesla got the loan. Others didn't. How is that fair?

Tesla qualified. Their application was reviewed by a board of People Who Know Things. I know this because my aunt, a respected physicist, sat on such a board. They're not throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks; they know what they're doing, and they're not picking winners and losers, they're playing the same game every investor plays: trying to decide who is going to win or lose before it happens. Tesla got th…

"they know what they're doing, and they're not picking winners and losers, they're playing the same game every investor plays: trying to decide who is going to win or lose before it happens."

The government should be in the venture capitalist business funding companies based on the recommendations of the board of People Who Know Things, now?

"As for dealerships, the reason Tesla doesn't have to go through them is because they don't have any preexisting agreements with the dealerships."

Other smaller car manufacturers are having to go through dealerships, even with zero pre-existing relationships. Why should Tesla, which has a market cap that far exceeds those aforementioned manufacturers, get special rules?

Post reply on HN