Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

treehugger.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 183 posts

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#101

Post by runako »

bob13579 wrote: post #82
jbooth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large corporate interests have the infrastructure in place and don't particularly want to sell directly. This regulation serves as a moat to keep out competition.

1) The large corporate interests don't own that infrastructure. The actual owners can choose whoever they want to represent. 2) What's stopping Tesla from partnering with Toyota dealers? 3) With its $10B valuation, Tesla could build 10 very nice dealerships for 1% of its valuation.

IIRC auto manufacturers are prohibited by law from owning dealerships. So Tesla would be introducing a dependency of variable quality between itself and its customers.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#102

Post by mhurron »

bob13579 wrote: post #82
jbooth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large corporate interests have the infrastructure in place and don't particularly want to sell directly. This regulation serves as a moat to keep out competition.

1) The large corporate interests don't own that infrastructure. The actual owners can choose whoever they want to represent. 2) What's stopping Tesla from partnering with Toyota dealers? 3) With its $10B valuation, Tesla could build 10 very nice dealerships for 1% of its valuation.

> What's stopping Tesla from partnering with Toyota dealers?

My guess is Tesla not wanting to slap a bunch of dealer costs on top of the cost of the cars.

> Tesla could build 10 very nice dealerships for 1% of its valuation.

As I understand it, Tesla owning those dealerships would be just as illegal. If Tesla doesn't own the dealerships, they're either going to share the profits of the sold cars with the dealership or deal with the dealers markup and dealers fees increasing the costs of the cars.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#104

Post by segmondy »

Please. Tesla will sell it over the internet and ship it. How many models do they have? They can have showrooms that don't engage in any sales. Where people can just go to look, test drive. This is such a non issue for them. Hope TX is forcing every one that sells over the internet to her citizens to pay her tax or else they will be missing those tax revenues too.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#105

Post by jbooth »

cobrausn wrote: post #81
alexqgb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to hear it. Just consider this poor bastard, who was recently sentenced by said morons to 50 years for the entirely non-violent act of shoplifting a package of ribs. www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/willie-smith-ward-rib-theft_n_3365554.html That's "justice", Texas style. Better than the Taliban's, I suppose. But not by much.

It seems he was sentenced not for stealing ribs, but because the threatened the store owner that confronted him, which is, in fact, a violent act. It also appears he was somewhat of a habitual offender, having been convincted of various violent and non-violent crimes many times previously. The sentence is somewhat harsh (eligible for parole in 12.5), but your comparison to the Taliban is absurd. EDIT: somewhat harsh…

SOMEWHAT????????????

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#106

Post by gknoy »

bobwaycott wrote: post #87
ajross wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metaphor is cute, but maybe overstated. Tesla isn't doing this because it's what a self healing network would do. Tesla is doing this because it's a rapidly-growing startup whose production facilities are heavily oversubscribed already. They have no net downsides to giving up the "Texas" market for now, because they don't have enough cars to sell even without Texas (and the handful of other such states). Eventual…

> IMHO, things make much more sense when you argue in fact instead of metaphor. This is true. However, are you actually arguing in fact? Your statements read as an outside agent judging the intentions and motivations of other agents. Perhaps you're part of one of the groups and actually possess insider knowledge here? Another potential outsider's reading of the bets and motivations at play (this taken from nearly 4 y…

That was a very well written explanation of what the dealers are doing (and why). Thanks for laying it out so clearly.

  | [F]loorplan isn't free, and it's a significant dealer cost
  | (which is why you should always buy the oldest car on the
  | lot (measured in # days it has been in dealer inventory)).
I realize this is a little off topic, but can you go into more detail of why this matters? If a dealer has N cars taking up space, why do they care whether I take the one that came in yesterday versus the one that came in a month ago? Selling either seems like it would free up the same space, so how is it different? Are there financial incentives that are at play for them, or is it more that they tend to consider the sunk costs?

More importantly, is that information I can find out and use to my advantage when negotiating?

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#107

Post by JPKab »

bob13579 wrote: post #24
hvs wrote: post #5

All too often, the media as well as average people mistake support for corporate interests as support for "free enterprise." When large corporate interests are essentially writing bills for lawmakers, "free enterprise" is precisely what is not being practiced.

Other car manufacturers can't sell directly. Why should Tesla get special rules?

In response to the "why should Tesla get this when other automakers don't" angle:

Nobody is saying the law is at all fair to Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. It's not. They should be able to sell directly to consumers also. The law was lobbied for by dealers in Texas, and signed by America's greatest president, George W. Bush, when he was still governor of Texas. Bush was a true conservative who believed in free market principles, except for when he wasn't.

Let's not pretend this is Tesla vs. Ford/GM/Toyota. This is Tesla vs. the good old boy, rent-seeker network that is the auto dealer lobby.

Car dealerships are some of the last dynasty busineses. Ever wonder why most family run businesses eventually fail when an incompetent son/daughter takes over, but dealerships just stay around for 3 or 4 generations? Its because its a rigged market that requires no skill. The profits don't come from adding value. They come from gouging consumers.

Tesla is just a new reminder that we are being screwed, and they don't have the inventory to support the network of the dealership mafiosos and their fratboy progeny.

"Dude, my dad owns this dealership, so I totally know business bro......" (overheard at every frat party ever)

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#108

Post by jfb »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #56
jfb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas has a part-time legislature. There's also no need to go looking for pantomime villains; car dealers are hugely powerful in local and state politics. They're the rock that Tesla will founder on.

That is taking "part time" to the extreme.

I'm of two minds. Is it really OK to have fundamental decisions about a system as large and complex as Texas' state government ultimately be decided by so unserious a group of people? Or would they just do more damage if they were around more?

I don't live in Texas, so I have no dog in the fight.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#109

Post by gnoway »

bob13579 wrote: post #93
andyl wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original intent of the law was not to prohibit manufacturers from selling direct. The intent was to prevent manufacturers from competing against their own dealerships. Tesla has no dealerships.

Did Toyota or Honda or BMW, when they initially entered US markets, get special laws? Or did common laws apply to them?

Does it matter?

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#110

Post by bobwaycott »

cobrausn wrote: post #81
alexqgb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to hear it. Just consider this poor bastard, who was recently sentenced by said morons to 50 years for the entirely non-violent act of shoplifting a package of ribs. www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/willie-smith-ward-rib-theft_n_3365554.html That's "justice", Texas style. Better than the Taliban's, I suppose. But not by much.

It seems he was sentenced not for stealing ribs, but because the threatened the store owner that confronted him, which is, in fact, a violent act. It also appears he was somewhat of a habitual offender, having been convincted of various violent and non-violent crimes many times previously. The sentence is somewhat harsh (eligible for parole in 12.5), but your comparison to the Taliban is absurd. EDIT: somewhat harsh…

The clarification here on the details is certainly nice to have.

However, are you seriously suggesting that 50 years imprisonment is only somewhat harsh?! Taking 12.5 years at the minimum before being eligible for parole for stealing $35 ribs and "threatening" someone?

By the way, saying "I've got a knife" and calling that a threat is both a stretch of what it means to threaten and what it means to call something a "violent act".

$35 food theft != 50 years imprisonment. That is fucking insane, not somewhat harsh.

Post reply on HN